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RESOLVED to approve the minutes of the 24th October 2024 as an accurate reflection of the meeting subject to the following amendments:- In relation to the Minutes, it should read ‘Windfarm’, not ‘Windfall’.
RESOLVED to: 1. Scrutinise and comment on the information contained in this report. 2. To further review the details provided within this report at a future committee meeting, alongside evidence from a range of School Governors, to enable committee to consider and review the effectiveness of Governor Support, and in doing so consider making representations or recommendations to Cabinet.
RESOLVED to: 1. Acknowledge the contents of this report. 2. Consider whether they wish to scrutinise any parts in greater depth.
Apologies of absence were received from County Borough Councillor S Emanuel and P Binning and Co-opted Member Mr S Jones.
The Service Director, Legal Services explained that a blanket personal declaration for those present who were members of a governing body, would be declared in respect of Agenda Item 3 – School Governance. In accordance with the code of conduct, the following declarations were made in relation to Agenda item 4: Ø County Borough Councillor S Evans – Personal Interest – “my son attends a school that is named in the report.” Ø County Borough Councillor C Lisles – Personal Interest – “I am member of the RCT GA and a Governor of Ysgol Afon Wen which is named in the report.” Ø County Borough Councillor J Smith – Personal Interest – “I am a Governor of one of the schools mentioned in the report.” Ø County Borough Councillor C Preedy – Personal Interest – “I am a Governor of Bryn Celynnog Comprehensive School and Ysgol Ty Coch is in my ward.” Ø County Borough Councillor M Ashford – Personal Interest – “I am a Governor of Pontyclun Primary School.” Ø County Borough Councillor J Brencher – Personal Interest – “I am a Governor of Ysgol Bro Taf.”
Y penderfyniad fel y'i cofnodwyd
RESOLVED to approve the minutes of the 24th October 2024 as an accurate reflection of the meeting subject to the following amendments:- In relation to the Minutes, it should read ‘Windfarm’, not ‘Windfall’.
It was RESOLVED to approve the minutes of the 24th October 2024 as an accurate reflection of the meeting subject to the following amendments:- In relation to the Minutes, it should read ‘Windfarm’, not ‘Windfall’.
Y penderfyniad fel y'i cofnodwyd
RESOLVED to: 1. Scrutinise and comment on the information contained in this report. 2. To further review the details provided within this report at a future committee meeting, alongside evidence from a range of School Governors, to enable committee to consider and review the effectiveness of Governor Support, and in doing so consider making representations or recommendations to Cabinet.
The Head of Service Transformation and Data Systems took Members through the report, starting with the background, at section 3, and the role of the Governor Support Service, Training and Rhondda Cynon Taf Governors Association, before continuing onto section 4, in regard to the role and impact of Governors, including the level of support offered by the Governor Support Service. Members were then provided with further details at section 5, of the role and impact of the Rhondda Cynon Taf Governors Association (RCT GA), before considering the Estyn recommendations in Wales at section 6. The Head of Service Transformation and Data Systems then took Members through the conclusion at section 13. The Chair thanked the Officer for presenting the report, and advised she had 2 initial comments, before opening up the meeting for Members questions. The Chair referring to page 22 of the report, section 6, the Estyn Thematic Review recommendations on governors in Wales, felt that whilst the all-Wales recommendations were valuable, what was missing from the report was the RCT specific recommendations, and asked that a summary come forward, for the awareness of the Committee, in future reports. The Chair noted, that a request for a public speaker, was turned down, as it did not adhere to the Public Participation Strategy, but was mindful as the Committee hadn’t heard from governors themselves, most notably the RCT GA, which as alluded to in the report, that the awareness and impact of the RCT GA was limited, and suggested that this item come back to Committee to be able to hear from the RCT GA themselves, and other governors that could contribute positively to the meeting. The Director of Education and Inclusion Services advised that as well as additional information requested, a summary of the Estyn inspection outcomes where governance was highlighted, along with the detail of what recommendations and actions had been detailed in the post-inspection action plans in schools requiring follow up, could be included in a future report. The Member asked, in terms of the survey, how many people participated and the medium used. The Member referring to page 20, points 4.3.2 and 4.3.3, asked what the barriers were to people who wished to become a governor and to those who wished to remain as governors, and asked if there was a connection between the two points. The Head of Service Transformation and Data Systems advised that every governor had a HWB email account and advised that the HWB account was the HWB RCT Governor page. Members were advised that it was acknowledged that not every Governor had requested to join the page, so this term there would be a big push to encourage governors to join the page, with the support from LA Officers. There was a need to demonstrate to governors the benefits of the HWB page recognising the numerous resources provided on there and it is the secure platform that all Governors should use. Members were advised that 400 members of school staff had attended courses on Data Protection with the National Cyber Security and WG HWB officers present, demonstrating the resilience of HWB to protect governors and school staff. The Member thanked the Officer for the response but noted that WG had acknowledged that there had been a problem with authentication but was happy to take this up with the Officer outside of the meeting. The Director of Education and Inclusion Services, in relation to page 18, 4.1.1 the survey results, explained that the number of responses was quite low. She took onboard the point about the difficulties on logging on to a new system acknowledging that training had been provided at launch in 2022 but understood the change in governors over time as well, so it was important for new governors to be supported to have access to HWB. Members were advised that at meetings, Governor Support Officers were there to support with access issues and every school had a digital lead, who could provide support. The Member asked if the survey could be re-sent to those that hadn’t responded, possibly via a different medium. The Senior Manager of Governor Support and Emergency Planning advised, in respect of the survey, that it was an online questionnaire which was sent to HWB accounts, as well as an email sent to personal accounts advising to access the survey via the HWB account. The Officer advised that she was happy to put the questionnaire as an agenda item in the summer term, with governors encouraged to complete. A Member put on record their acknowledgement of how long it had taken them to access HWB, explaining their own experience with authentication issues. A Member suggested that it would be useful to run a session in every school at the beginning of the year for all governors, on how to access the HWB. The Head of Service Transformation and Data Systems advised that they could work with the digital leads in every school and would take on board the Members comments and would work towards it. Another Member provided context around their issues with HWB and asked if a generic email could be sent to a different email address advising when something had been sent to the HWB. The Senior Manager of Governor Support and Emergency Planning advised that the guidance circulated to Governors last week, provided step by step guidance on how to access HWB but acknowledged it was about reminding to check the HWB, so took on board the comment. The Director of Education and Inclusion Services acknowledged the difficulty in maintaining distribution lists given changes in governors, and thereby managing expectations. A Member felt this was a very positive report, acknowledging that the survey would be circulated again, and felt it would be useful after the HWB training had taken place. The Member felt it would be useful, when recirculated, if the survey could have an additional question on governor experience. The Member sought clarification if the numbers on the bottom of the tables were totals or averages. The Member, in relation to induction, asked if the guides to HWB could be attached, to the personal email they receive when they start. The Member referring to the training asked if it was possible to have recordings, to get the messages across. The Member, on the back of the self-evaluation toolkit, asked if it was felt if RCT schools were doing enough self-evaluation. The Member referring to Appendix 1, the Governor Support Services SLA 2024/25, sought clarification around the charging arrangements at point 4 and sought further clarification around whether the RCT GA was independent. The Member referring to the paragraph around working with other schools on page 37 of the Estyn thematic review and asked how far the Education department believed that the RCT GA was fulfilling those tasks. The Member explained that if a particular organisation was mentioned in an agenda item as a matter of courtesy, they should be informed and invited to contribute, and that this should be considered in relation to every item that comes to the Committee. The Head of Service Transformation and Data Systems provided some clarification around the figures. The Senior Manager of Governor Support and Emergency Planning explained with regards to self-evaluation that they worked with colleagues in Central South Consortium (CSC), and Improvement Partners (IPs) undertook the self-evaluation with Governing Bodies. Where recommendations had come forward from Estyn to some schools, it was being used to support governors and identify areas for development. Members were provided with clarification in regard to the SLA and query around the charging arrangements and were informed that in the RCT GA constitution it stated that it was independent but was supported. The reason being is that the GA previously requested administrative support and professional support to assist the association. The Member noted that the latest version of the constitution did not mention the word independent and should be something that should be looked at. The Chair, referring to HWB, asked in respect of that independence whether the RCT GA executive body had the ability to contact other governors through HWB, whilst acknowledging its independence and issues around GDPR. The Head of Service Transformation and Data Systems advised that herself and the Senior Manager of Governor Support and Emergency Planning met with a representative of the RCT GA and with a representative of information management, noting that the RCT GA was an independent forum, therefore email addresses could not be shared with them. What had been suggested was to give the RCT GA a page on the HWB website page, whilst accepting the comments around the limited membership. Additionally, Officers could work with the RCT GA to create their own independent HWB page. The Service Director for 21st Century Schools and Transformation stated she would be more than happy to support the RCT GA with sending information out, as long as they came through to the Governor Support Service. The Chair asked if other local authorities operated in the same way. The Senior Manager of Governor Support and Emergency Planning provided further information on Governor Support Services across local authorities, acknowledging that not all offered the same level of support, and Governors Associations across Wales, worked differently, explaining some of the differences. In relation to the Estyn descriptions, and whether it was felt the RCT GA was fulfilling those tasks, it was noted that the outgoing Chair had finished at the end of the summer term, so it was about working with the RCT GA moving forward in a partnership role. It was noted that some really good work had been done by the RCT GA and it was about building that communication and working together to provide information back out to all Governing Bodies and all governors, as well as putting items on the agenda. The Director of Education and Inclusion Services added that regular meetings had been held in the past, with the Chair and Vice-Chair and, there was an open invitation for any Officer to attend the meetings that were convened and to contribute, to ensure the two way flow of information, whilst acknowledging there had been some GDPR issues around disseminating information and email addresses. A Member, in relation to HWB, asked if the guidance could be sent out to those Members who were governors, via their Council email address. In relation to the barriers to those wishing to become governors, the Member sought clarification around the type of training being offered, moving forward. The Head of Service Transformation and Data Systems advised that one of the things in the action plan was to review all the training provided, to look at which could be done as hybrid, which could be done in person, and which could be done as a simple upload of slides to a HWB page. A Member, referring to governor recruitment asked what was in place to ensure that there were full Governing Bodies in schools. The Senior Manager of Governor Support and Emergency Planning explained there had been a recruitment drive over the last summer with posters and flyers sent around to lots of public areas, where it was felt there would be public interest. That outlined what skills set and experience was needed whilst advising what support was available e.g., training, although it was acknowledged that governor vacancies still remained, recognising that this was a volunteer role, with recruitment on a continual basis. Members suggested it might be useful, as part of a social media campaign, to contact Universities, as well placing something on the RCT Facebook page, as well as the local radio station and the Governors for Schools organisation. A Member asked, in relation to HWB, if it would be useful if a County Councillors HWB training session could be put on. The Senior Manager of Governor Support and Emergency Planning confirmed that she would be happy to offer a session for Councillors to attend, and to make those arrangements during this term. The Chair felt it was important to share good practice where identified, recognising that as well as making a governance recommendation, Estyn were keen to highlight good governance practice. The Chair emphasised that it was important for Governing Bodies to reach out others and not to wait to get to the tipping point. It was about self-improvement, self-evaluation, that continuous improvement and also reaching out where there was good practice, so ensuring a continuous process for Governing Bodies, not just a call out for help. Members felt it would be helpful, prior to the follow up meeting, if the RCT GA could review the recording and minutes and to ensure that actions were followed through and working in partnership with Officers. The Director of Education and Inclusion Services, in terms of representations from Governing Bodies, felt it would be useful to include a Governing Body representative where the governance practice has proved to be strong by Estyn, and perhaps another where there has been a specific recommendation around governance. The Chair acknowledged that should the Committee wish to do so, it could be minded to write to the Cabinet Member for Education, Inclusion and Welsh Language, outlining some of the suggestions identified. It was RESOLVED to: 1. Scrutinise and comment on the information contained in this report. 2. To further review the details provided within this report at a future committee meeting, alongside evidence from a range of School Governors, to enable committee to consider and review the effectiveness of Governor Support, and in doing so consider making representations or recommendations to Cabinet.
Y penderfyniad fel y'i cofnodwyd
RESOLVED to: 1. Acknowledge the contents of this report. 2. Consider whether they wish to scrutinise any parts in greater depth.
The School Business and Organisation Manager began by advising that the report provided an update on the investment secured and delivered through the Sustainable Communities for Learning Programme, before taking Members through the report, starting with the background, at section 4, before continuing onto section 5, the current position, including the Strategic Outline Programme (SOP), Community Focused Schools Capital Grant Scheme and Lessons Learned. The School Business and Organisation Manager then took Members through the conclusion at section 12. The Lead for Strategic Planning and MIM, through the use of a PowerPoint presentation, took Members through some images of the most recent projects that had been delivered. The Chair thanked Officers for the report and images and referred to the work of the Task and Finish Group. The Chair felt it would be useful in a future report to have a summary of schools which have a high backlog maintenance and are non-compliant with the Equalities Act, but not included in the SOP yet. It was appreciated that what was in front of Members this evening was a really good picture of the schools that have had work and investment, the schools that are on the list, but this did not necessarily give a complete list of schools to come, in order to give the Committee an idea of the breadth of the work. A Member, asked for clarification around pre-handover issues at Ysgol Bro Taf, and whether they had been resolved, and whether there would be a financial burden on the new school created, if there was work to be done. The Member in respect of the Net Zero Carbon commitment, sought clarification around for example, where windows had not been replaced in parts of the school that had not been redeveloped, and wondered if there was a plan moving forward. The Member also sought clarification around access to Bryn Celynnog Comprehensive School from outside the area and questioned whether transport costs were impacting upon numbers of pupils choosing to attend Bryn Celynnog from the wider Pontypridd area. The School Business and Organisation Manager acknowledged that although not all the pre-handover issues had been resolved at Ysgol Bro Taf, colleagues in Corporate Estates were working towards resolving these, without any financial burden to the school. In respect of Net Zero Carbon for Ysgol Bro Taf in particular, meeting the Net Zero Carbon in operation was only a requirement in relation to the primary area. It was recognised however that it was an issue going forward, recognising the targets that needed to be achieved more widely by the Council and Welsh Government. The School Business and Organisation Manager advised that a paper would be put before Cabinet in March, to look at what the priority projects were for the next year, acknowledging that budgets were tight. The Director of Education and Inclusion Services provided a detailed response in terms of the impact on the teaching and learning environments for the children, the investment in school buildings, the point on equality issues, and around the rolling programme, acknowledging there were a range of investment pots which they could tap into. The Director of Education and Inclusion Services suggested that a future report to Scrutiny Committee could also consider investment in Early Years. The Service Director for 21st Century Schools and Transformation provided further context around the mixture of buildings inherited whilst acknowledging the Council still had some remaining poor buildings, but excellent progress has been made as part of the programme to remove our poorest condition buildings and some of these t were being demolished, as part of the programme. In terms of transport to Bryn Celynnog Comprehensive School, the Director was happy to look into this outside of the meeting as sixth form learners from the wider Pontypridd area should not be incurring transport costs. A Member, referring to paragraph 5.1, noted there was mention of moving over to the rolling programme from the fixed time period and asked what the benefits were, compared to the previous funding model. The Member in relation to 5.9 Community Focused Schools, noted that all the investment streams had objectives, and asked in relation to Ysgol Afon Wen, whether the ‘spare’ building could be used as a youth club after school. The Member, referring to Ysgol Awel Taf, sought clarification if the community room, was actually being used as a community room. The Member, referring to schools that had been refurbished and had solar panels sought clarification around how many schools were seeing the benefit from the budget sheet, from the energy generated. The Member, in relation to Bryn Celynnog Comprehensive School asked how many sixth form learners from the catchment areas of the schools in the wider Pontypridd area were actually attending, and what actions were being undertaken to increase the numbers. The Member referring to the lessons learned at 5.11 of the report asked that these be included in the task and finish group report. In addition the Member asked for clarification in relation to the programme board being set-up. In addition, in respect of the list of membership being suggested, the Member asked if consideration had been given to including representation from Headteachers. The Member sought clarification around the fencing issues at Ysgol Awel Taf and queried why they weren’t picked up at an earlier stage. The Member referring to paragraph 5.12 of the report, in respect of the task and finish group asked for clarification in relation to other Local Authorities’ input, in terms of Sustainable Communities for Learning projects, and lessons learned, and the involvement of Highways with Sustainable Communities for Learning projects The School Business and Organisation Manager began, in relation to other Local Authorities and none of the 21 had any information or had done a similar piece of work in terms of the involvement of a Scrutiny Committee. In respect of Highways, it was confirmed that they were part of the design team, so a stakeholder, and as part of the two current schemes, due to take place, they were part of the early client engagement meetings, and this would continue going forward. The officer provided a comprehensive response in respect of the benefits of the rolling programme, acknowledging that it gives more flexibility in terms of the delivery, rather than being constrained in respect of Band A and Band B. In respect of community focused schools, and the use of the building at Ysgol Afon Wen, the officer explained that in terms of how the hubs were created, it was very much a consultation with the local community and should a youth club be needed the Community Engagement Officer would encourage this. It was confirmed that there was a community room at Ysgol Awel Taf, and the officer confirmed she could check with the Headteacher what the use was there. In respect of Bryn Celynnog Comprehensive School, the officer explained that she did not have the figures to hand regarding sixth form attendance from the wider Pontypridd area but would ask the data team to circulate these to Members. In respect of the Programme Board, Members were advised that this sat at a high level, not at a delivery level e.g., CEO, Director of Education and Inclusion Services, etc. The Service Director for 21st Century Schools, felt it would be useful for representatives to come to the Project Board, as opposed to the Programme Board as and when required. In addition, Headteachers and staff of the schools receiving investment are fully consulted from inception to completion of the project. The officer provided clarification around the fencing, acknowledging that those who had made the request, were involved in the design process, whilst recognising that this was a constrained site and that sometimes things that aren’t apparent on a plan become apparent once the construction works are progressing. The Service Director for 21st Century Schools, in relation to how many schools were seeing the benefit from the budget sheet, from the energy generated by solar panels, explained that schools could access the data online via a portal that the Council’s Energy Team had established and monitor their energy use and certainly receive the benefits of the energy generated from the panels etc. The Member sought further clarification around the feed in tariff. The Service Director for 21st Century Schools confirmed that she would provide information to the Member on feed in tariffs. The Member, referring to the Client Engagement Meeting mentioned, felt it would be useful to include an advocate/representative e.g., a Headteacher or Teacher, just to give that input from an educational perspective. The School Business and Organisation Manager acknowledged, in terms of the Client Engagement Meeting that everyone started the process with a fresh pair of eyes, and where there wasn’t a current Headteacher in post or if there were to be a new Headteacher appointed, they ask for any volunteers in relation to who wanted to be involved in that design element going forward. A Member, in respect of the paragraph 5.9 and a school within his ward, asked what was being done, in terms of marketing, to make the wider community aware of what was available in relation to use of the outdoor facilities outside of school hours. The Director of Education and Inclusion Services explained that Leisure Services took the lead in terms of booking of sporting facilities, so would be responsible for the marketing around that. She , which she understood that sporting facilities were was generally well used, and provided further information in respect of the Community Schools lead, noting that reports in the past, had seen there has been some positive developments in this a real growth area. The School Business and Organisation Manager added that the Directorate had a Community Schools Officer who is working with schools to widen opportunities for greater use of schools by the community. It was RESOLVED to: 1. Acknowledge the contents of this report. 2. Consider whether they wish to scrutinise any parts in greater depth.
The Chair thanked Officers of their time and detailed reports and honest answers, and thanked Members for their detailed questioning and advised that the next scheduled meeting of the committee would take place on Thursday 13th March, at 5pm.
None
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