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RESOLVED not to referthe relevant decision taken on the 18th December back to Cabinet for reconsideration and therefore that decision will be implementable following the closure of this meeting. (Note: Councillor K Morgan abstained from voting on the matter (Minute No.47 refers).
An apology for absence was received from County Borough Councillor Sera Evans.
In accordance with the Council’s Code of Conduct, the following declarations of interests were made pertaining to the agenda: Councty Borough Councillor K Morgan – Personal interest- “I will contribute to the discussion but note vote on the item as I have spoken on the matter previously” County Borough Councillor A Rogers- Personal interest- “I am a Governor of Rhigos and Hirwaun Primary Schools”
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RESOLVED not to referthe relevant decision taken on the 18th December back to Cabinet for reconsideration and therefore that decision will be implementable following the closure of this meeting. (Note: Councillor K Morgan abstained from voting on the matter (Minute No.47 refers).
The Service Director Democratic Services & Communications presented the report which outlined the procedure for the meeting, as set out in rule 17 of the Overview & Scrutiny Committee Procedure Rules. The Service Director advised that a call-in request was received from County Borough Councillors S Trask, A Rogers and D Grehan within the prescribed timescales, on 21st December 2023, which complied with the relevant criteria and considered valid by the proper officer. The call-in requested that the decision of Cabinet in respect of the proposal to close Rhigos Primary School with pupils transferring to Hirwaun Primary School, taken at its meeting held on the 18th December 2023, be considered by the Overview & Scrutiny Committee. The Service Director outlined the procedures for the meeting with the three signatories, who signed the call-in form, to address Committee first, setting out their reasons for requesting the call-in and why they consider the decision should be referred back to the decision maker for reconsideration. Secondly, the registered public speakers will have the opportunity to address Members before the Director of Education & Inclusion Services and Cabinet Member address the comments made by the speakers. Members of the Overview & Scrutiny Committee will have the opportunity to consider the valid reasons set out in the report together with all contributions before voting on whether they consider whether the matter should be referred back to Cabinet. It was confirmed that the nominated signatory, Councillor D Grehan, would make the final address before a roll call vote is taken on whether or not to refer the matter back to the relevant decision maker for reconsideration. It will be for the Director of Legal and Democratic Services to clarify and summarise the Committee’s decision. Councillor S Trask Councillor Trask considered the decision contained within the report as out of date and incomplete. In his role as a family court Magistrate, Councillor Trask stated that he is often called upon to make decisions for other people’s children with all information available to him which he considered should be the case for the Local Authority. He commented that several matters have developed since the original report on the impact on the school closure such as the LEA response which indicates that transportation is only provided at the beginning and end of the school day. With a thriving breakfast club and one of the highest pupil attendances in the area, Councillor Trask feared that with unreliable public transport and limited options, especially in emergencies, the rising cost of public transport (citing the cost of a return ticket from Rhigos to Hirwaun as £5.20 return) may be a barrier to families accessing the breakfast club and other before and after school programmes, impacting the educational experience and social development of many young children. He raised concerns regarding the charge for the additional childcare services also raises concerns for the equity and support for vulnerable families which is contrary to the strategic priority of the Director of Education & Inclusion Services. Councillor Trask commented that also contrary to the initial report is that Rhigos Primary School is a safe and well-maintained building which has received significant investment with many unanswered questions about future costs. Councillor Trask raised concern regarding the home to school transport proposals as he considered the Council’s aim to encourage active travel conflicts with the proposal to close Rhigos Primary. He cited the reliance on the use of home to school transport, private cars or poor public transport as having a negative impact on efforts to reduce its carbon footprint. The proposal contradicts the Council’s tackling climate change strategy and the Welsh Government’s plan for a low carbon Wales with many additional cars on the roads at the beginning and end of the school day which could potentially impact on the community of Rhigos. In conclusion, Councillor Trask commented that the closure of Rhigos Primary School raises significant challenges for the community, the wellbeing of the children, the impact on active travel and the environmental issues. Councillor A Rogers Councillor Rogers considered that referring the matter back would enable Cabinet to reconsider everyone’s views for the benefit of the children and residents of Rhigos. Councillor Rogers referred to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child which has been adopted by both the Council and Welsh Government and he felt that the three core aims would not be adhered to should the proposal progress. Councillor Rogers referred specifically to article 13.1 and 13.2 (freedom of expression) and he commented that the School Council’s request to address Cabinet on the 18th December was declined by the Chair preventing the children, who were eager to participate, from making their views heard. With regard to Article 31.2 (Leisure, play and culture), Councillor Rogers mentioned the large outdoor space at Rhigos School and the extra-curricular sports such as netball and football that currently take place at the school which he feared would not be possible if they were transferred to Hirwaun Primary. With one bus available from Hirwaun School at the start and end of the school day Councillor Rogers felt this arrangement may prevent pupils from participating in any extra-curricular activities. Article 27.1 (adequate standard of living)- Councillor Rogers stated that the child poverty rate has risen in Wales and without the opportunity to take part in the free breakfast club currently available in Rhigos Primary, (where almost 50% of all pupils use the breakfast club) pupils may lose the opportunity to receive a free healthy breakfast each day and socialise with their peers. He added that the LEA commented that depending on the home to school transport arrangements, pupils may have the opportunity to participate in the breakfast club and there were no solutions offered by Cabinet. Councillor Rogers referred to both the Minister for Education & Welsh Language and the Children’s Commissioner for Wales who have both expressed the importance of the voice of the child being central to the decision-making and value the involvement of the pupils in the very policies that affect them. He added that throughout the consultation process many queries have remained unanswered such as the uncertainty around childcare and play schemes in Hirwaun as the private childcare provider in Hirwaun is now full until September 2024 and is likely to be the case beyond that period. He added that many other queries remain unanswered such as the remaining cost of the work at Rhigos Primary School and costings for the Home to School Transport between Hirwaun and Rhigos primary School. Councillor Rogers likened the unanswered questions surrounding the proposals to that of the proposed closure of Caegarw Primary School in 2013 (which remained open) when many questions on the practical implementation remained unanswered. He referred to the overwhelming majority of responses (94.5%) against the proposals to close Rhigos Primary School which cannot be ignored. Councillor Rogers concluded his representation by addressing the alternative to the proposals to close Rhigos Primary, maintaining the status quo with solar panels and equipment for a new outdoor area for the children already in place, there would be no requirement for WG or RCT investment regarding home to school transport and there would be no disruption to the parents, carers, pupils and staff, with the projected pupil numbers which may increase. Investment for Rhigos Primary School, with match funding from local businesses or grants as the school has been described as an energy efficient school with an up to date property condition survey. Councillor D Grehan Councillor Grehan referred to points 1 and 6 of the reasons for the call-in, namely the negative impact of the proposal for pupils and the wider community of Rhigos especially in line with the requirements of the Wellbeing of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 which requires RCTCBC to think about the long-term impact of decisions on communities to prevent consistent issues such as poverty, health inequalities and climate change and point 6 which refers to the potential impact of the decision both positive and negative. Councillor Grehan added that the decision should be referred back to Cabinet as in his opinion, these points were not fully considered. Even though training on the Wellbeing of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 was delivered to all Members recently, the correct attention was not given to this matter and more consideration should have been given to the negative effects of the proposal as it will affect future generations. He commented that the Commissioner has stated that entry to high standards of local education with low carbon omissions is very important and it will continue to impact on the wellbeing of people living in Wales. The wellbeing targets, a successful Wales, a more healthy Wales and a Wales of more co-ordinated communities.. There will be a negative effect across the four Wellbeing targets for the pupils of Rhigos. Councillor Grehan commented that the Commissioner helpfully poses the following questions: One - have the decisions been taken exclusively by the LEA or in conjunction with the local residents and will the proposals benefit the community, are these ideas of the people in power or the residents in the community. Two -How will these propositions affect inclusivity? The pupils of Rhigos will find it difficult to socialise in Hirwaun due to the distance and transport issues. He added that Rhigos Primary has been described by Estyn as the heart of the community and this aspect will be lost should the proposal go ahead. Is the decision encouraging more use of vehicles as parents have to collect and drop off pupils and the public record will show that there was no consideration of these matters in the meetings when these points were raised. Councillor D Grehan referred to the responses to the consultation from the community regarding the long term effects, which were raised by pupils, teachers and the community, the very people that these proposals affect. He stated that Rhigos is a small rural school which benefits from a grant, which was applied for by this council. He added that the decision making process failed to consider the negative effects of closing a small rural school which provide many social and academic aspects, vital in engaging pupils and parents from the most deprived areas in rural communities. Councillor Grehan stressed that removing a school from a village goes against all the policies which encourage more healthy and inclusive communities including the Council’s obligations under the Wellbeing of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. Councillor Grehan concluded that the decision should be referred back to Cabinet for these reasons to be considered. Following conclusion of the presentations by the three signatories to the call-in, there followed an address from the public speakers, Mr J Morris and Ms S Oliver who were both provided five minutes in which to address Committee. The Chair thanked them all for their valuable contributions and invited the Service Director, Democratic Services to clarify the purpose of the meeting which is to consider the specific seven reasons contained within the call-in and for Members to determine whether or not to refer the matter back to Cabinet for its deliberation. The Director of Education & Inclusion Services, as the report author, acknowledged that this is an emotive issue and she addressed the points raised in the call-in. The Director highlighted that a full socio economic and equality assessment have been carried out as part of the consultation process and this, as a live document, will continue to be added to throughout the process. In addition, and a community impact assessment has also been included and written in accordance with the School Organisation Code for 2018. The Director added that information in relation to the alignment with the proposal against the aims of the Future Generations Act 2015 was included in both Cabinet reports (and still available to view on the Council’s website). The Director confirmed that all the responses received from stakeholders including the presentations delivered by the children of Rhigos have been viewed by the Cabinet and all the information has been made available to the Cabinet Members. She added that children and young people have been actively involved in the consultation process and the council has met with its obligations in terms of the School Organisation Code and children have presented their views. The children of Rhigos had an opportunity to impart their views about their school of which they are passionate about. The School Councils of Hirwaun and Rhigos were also consulted. The Director confirmed that the power point presentation delivered in the school was included and summarised in the consultation report for Cabinet’s consideration. The Director highlighted some concerns that have been raised in respect of the aims of the proposal are contrary to the aims of another proposal being consulted upon by the Council i.e. The Home to School Transport and Breakfast Clubs (2.8 miles away from Hirwaun and Rhigos Primary school with no direct impact on eligibility of children accessing home to school transport and the latter having been addressed in Scrutiny and Cabinet). The decision to proceed in the absence of incomplete data has been raised as a concern, the Director advised that valid data has been provided to Cabinet Members in accordance to Welsh Government’s requirements which have been outlined in the School Organisation Code. The Director added that the condition survey information is less than 5 years old and between £170-180K has been invested in the school to make it warm, safe and watertight. She added that the Estyn Inspection information was also less than five years old and the most recent undertaken, the pupil number data is based on class data as well as actual numbers attending both schools. The Director commented that pupil projections is based on the approved method of calculating data based on using live birth data for nursery placements as well as cohort survival method from reception to year six which is a good and reliable source of predicting future numbers within the school. With regards to alternative options put forward by consultees to address the surplus places in the schools, the Director advised that careful consideration has been given to all possible options which are referenced in the documentation provided to Cabinet. The recommendation made by Officers remains valid with no amendments and the Director added that the recommendation that the proposal progresses to the next phase stands. In terms of a more comprehensive understanding of the potential impact, both positive and negative has been covered in all the risk assessments and have been included in the consultation documents and all the documents written in full compliance with the school organisation code. The Director alluded to the feedback from the Education & Inclusion Scrutiny Committee held on the 14th December and a concern raised that it was not included in the Cabinet report which was considered at its meeting held on the 18th December. She confirmed that the feedback was received prior to the Cabinet meeting, and Cabinet Members sought further clarification to the feedback at its meeting (which was minuted and is on public record and available to view on the Council website). In conclusion, the Director reiterated that Rhigos Primary School is the smallest school in RCT with diminishing pupil numbers over the next 5 years, with pupil numbers now standing at 49 (from 51 as previously recorded since the commencement of the consultation period). She added that the reduction in pupil numbers would impact on the future viability of the school and on the Childrens’ education in the future due to the financial challenges. The Director of Education & Inclusion Services commented that Estyn’s formal response noted that the proposal is likely to at least maintain the standard of education provision and outcomes for pupils in the area with no concerning information relating to either school having been brough to the attention of the Council’s Education & Inclusion Service. The Cabinet Member for Education, Youth Participation and Welsh Language addressed Committee and commented that the passion in the Rhigos area for their young people, is a shared passion as everyone wants the best outcomes for the young people of RCT. He felt confident that the Director of Education has responded fully to the seven areas outlined in the call-in. The Cabinet Member reminded Committee that the LA is under direction from Welsh Government to review surplus spaces in schools across the region and he added that not to do so would be a dereliction of its role as an authority. He commented that the proposals before Cabinet had been fully scrutinised at every stage and they have challenged the data and rationale as provided by officers. The Cabinet Member felt confident that the data and rationale are robust and accurate and the consultation has been fair and accurate. The Cabinet Member described his role as one that holds Senior Officers to account and he is confident that this has been undertaken, likewise that Scrutiny has had the opportunity to review the proposals and provided their input to Cabinet. The Cabinet Member concluded that the decision to close Rhigos Primary School is not an easy one, he felt that an easier decision would be not to act at all but failure to do so when the pupil numbers are dropping would have a detrimental impact on the school and its ability to deliver the curriculum for Wales, especially considering the correlation between pupil numbers and funding. He added that Hirwaun school is a brand new 21st Century School with the very best facilities and complies with the 2010 Equality Act. The Cabinet Member commented that, as previously mentioned, the Estyn response to the proposal should provide some reassurance. The Chair acknowledged the emotive issue before Members and the sympathy that Members felt for the community of Rhigos. She asked the Director to respond further to the Estyn report and sought clarification on the process for advising Cabinet around Scrutiny’s deliberation. The Director responded that Estyn has to consider the requirements of the School Organisation Code and she acknowledged that the response from Estyn was a positive one and they did not find that the proposal (which included all the evidence) would have an adverse impact on the quality of the children’s education. The Estyn Inspections had taken place sometime ago, in 2019 and stressed that as with all inspections, they are undertaken at a point in time and school improvement does fluctuate. The Director commented that both schools are now in core support categories and neither access enhanced support from Central South Consortia. The Service Director Democratic Services & Communication provided advice regarding that the comments of the Education & Inclusion Services Scrutiny Committee, which had been circulated to Cabinet on Friday, 15th December (having been approved by the Chair of the Committee) in advance of its consideration of the proposals at its meeting on the 18th December, which he confirmed satisfies the robust mechanism in place regarding Scrutiny’s feedback to inform Cabinet’s deliberations. In terms of public scrutiny, the Service Director commented that public had opportunity to access the recording which was live directly following the conclusion of the proceedings of the scrutiny committee and further that there were a number of references to the scrutiny feedback by Cabinet on the 18th December. Following further concern that the feedback to Cabinet would not have been made available to the public in advance of the Cabinet meeting on the 18th December, the Service Director advised that the adopted approach has been in place before the Council’s recording of meetings was introduced and the feedback takes the format of a letter to Cabinet. He stressed that where time permits, the letter does form part of the pack to Cabinet and is a summary of the comments made and does not contain the full discussion, which is available to view via the Council’s website. Following a request for clarification around the purpose of the Call-in, the Director of Education & Inclusion Services outlined the statutory processes for the proposal which would allow for a minimum 28-day period for objections. If any objections are received during this period, an Objection Report would be prepared and the matter would be reported to a future meeting of the Cabinet for Members to consider. A Member raised concern following earlier comments, that the call-in process was not being afforded due regard or being considered as a vital tool and that the call-in was in fact an opportunity to ask Cabinet to reconsider its decision to proceed with the statutory process. A Member asked for further evidence that all the alternative options have been given proper consideration as appropriate by the Director of Education & Inclusion Services and queried whether or not a business case had had been considered for investment in the repair and maintenance of the current school from local businesses and whether meetings with school governors had been undertaken. The Director provided a response and stressed that it is important not to underestimate the considerable level of investment required by Rhigos Primary School. She explained that a whole raft of factors need to be considered in the provision of a strong business case to Welsh Government such as the data, pupil numbers, the condition of the building, making a case for considerable investment whilst also considering the strong feeling and upset felt by pupils, parents and the community. She added that the closure of the school was considered the best option in these financially challenging times. The Service Director for 21st Century Schools and Transformation commented that consideration has to look beyond the school buildings to the future sustainability of the school budget which is pupil led. With diminishing pupil numbers, the revenue budget for staffing costs, running costs and energy costs is not sustainable. She questioned whether local businesses would be able to fund the future annual revenue of the school with diminishing pupil numbers. With regards to the 21st Century School standard, the Service Director advised that the building condition survey was undertaken at a point in time, it would be difficult to fund any future investment as the business case would not stack up with the diminishing pupil numbers. All Members were sympathetic to the concerns of parents, but a number of Members also acknowledged that allowing the number of surplus places to remain high would have a detrimental impact on the future financial viability of Rhigos Primary School and impact children’s education in the future or lead to mixed classes to achieve better outcomes. A Member spoke of his personal school experience transferring from an old Victorian school in Blaenrhondda, with only 48 pupils in a mixed class to a nearby, new school following the closure of his own which he considered to be the right move, one which ensured that his peers enjoyed facilities which were fit for purpose and mixed with pupils of their own age. A Member considered that the call-in should be a robust process and raised concern that there remained many unanswered questions and a high volume of objections to the proposal, as highlighted by the speakers. The Member added that the proposal presents an opportunity for the LA to take a different perspective and work alongside the public sector, which is encouraged by the Wellbeing of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. She urged the Council to scrutinise the matter properly and reconsider closing Rhigos Primary School. The Chair invited the signatory to the Call-In, Councillor D. Grehan, to make a final address to the Committee. In his final address Councillor Grehan believed that the general impression is that the Council is not listening to the residents, parents, the community and is not really listening to the arguments against closing the School which he found to be a sad situation for the Labour Party. He also alluded to the children who are happy where they are but whose views are not being listened to. He also referred to the cost in the future for public transport. The Chair undertook a rollcall to determine whether or not to refer the matter back to the decision maker for reconsideration. Following consideration of the issues and in accordance with the Overview & Scrutiny Procedure Rules, it was RESOLVED not to referthe relevant decision taken on the 18th December back to Cabinet for reconsideration and therefore that decision will be implementable following the closure of this meeting. (Note: Councillor K Morgan abstained from voting on the matter (Minute No.47 refers).
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