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RESOLVED That the Forward Work Programme for 2024-25 be approved.
RESOLVED That the Committee noted the report [Councillor Mike Stoddart requested that his vote against the recommendation be noted.]
RESOLVED That the Committee accepted the Welsh Language Standards Annual Report 2023-24 report and requested that the Director for Education explore ways to capture external learning undertaken via community groups to enable a broader picture to be reflected in future year’s reports.
RESOLVED That the Committee endorsed the Overview & Scrutiny Annual Report for 2023-24, prior to consideration by Council, and requested that future year’s reports include undertaken training data and attendance figures in relation to site visits.
RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the Budget Monitoring Outturn report for 2023-24 and had no recommendations to make on any areas of specific concern.
RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the Budget Monitoring report for Quarter 1 2024-25 and had no specific recommendations to make on any areas of concern. [Councillors Tom Tudor and Brian Hall left the meeting at this juncture.]
The Chair sought nominations for the election of Vice-Chair for the ensuing municipal year. Councillor Pat Davies nominated Councillor Steve Alderman; Seconded by Councillor Simon Hancock. The vote was taken by way of a show of hands and carried. RESOLVED That Councillor Steve Alderman be duly elected as Vice-Chair for the ensuing Municipal Year.
Apologies for absence were received from Councillor Michael Williams.
The following declarations of interest were made in relation to Agenda Item No. 13, Dyfed Pension Fund. · Councillor Michael John declared a personal interest. · Councillor Mike James declared a personal interest. · Councillor Jonathan Grimes declared a personal interest. · Councillor Simon Hancock declared a personal interest. · Councillor Steve Yelland declared a personal interest. · Councillor Steve Alderman declared a personal interest.
Moved by Councillor Simon Hancock; Seconded by Councillor Jonathan Grimes. The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the English and Welsh Minutes of the meeting held on 21 March 2024 be approved as correct records. Councillors Brian Hall, Bethan Price and Steve Yelland abstained from voting as they were not present at the March Committee meeting.
The Chair advised that a public submission had been received which would be dealt with during the November 2024 Committee meeting as it was in relation to a planned agenda item, Rural Broadband.
The Chair outlined the two items contained within the action plan, and with no questions being raised, the Committee noted the progress of both actions.
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RESOLVED That the Forward Work Programme for 2024-25 be approved.
The Chair drew the Committee’s attention to the work programme and advised that although the June Committee meeting did not go ahead due to the pre-election period, the Committee was still active and participated in a forward work planning session in July which formed the appended proposed work programme. Moved by Councillor Michael John; Seconded by Councillor Steve Alderman The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Forward Work Programme for 2024-25 be approved.
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RESOLVED That the Committee noted the report [Councillor Mike Stoddart requested that his vote against the recommendation be noted.]
The Committee considered a report by the Head of Law and Governance on the Deed of Variation of the Swansea Bay City Deal Joint Committee Agreement. The Chair welcomed Ffion Williams, Solicitor, to the meeting to partake in the item of business, in the absence of the Head of Law and Governance. The Chair outlined the background as to why the Committee had requested that the report be presented, before handing over to Councillor Jon Harvey, Leader, who outlined the details of the report. He highlighted an error within the report which stated that the Deed of Variation was considered by Cabinet on the 10 July 2017, but the correct date was the 7 October 2019, of which the correct Cabinet report was circulated to Committee Members as a supplementary paper. The Solicitor outlined some technical details on the matter, stating that the decisions made by Council in relation to the Swansea Bay City Deal Joint Committee Agreement and the Joint Scrutiny Committee were appropriate and also outlined that some of the functions discharged by the Joint Committee were Cabinet functions, so confirmed that Cabinet did have a role to play. It was stated that following a review of the Swansea Bay City Deal, recommendations were made to alter the Joint Committee Agreement, which were outlined within the 7 October 2019 Cabinet report, and which were subsequently agreed. It was the view of the Solicitor that the revision of the Terms of Reference of the Joint Overview and Scrutiny Committee was a matter which should have been considered by Council, but otherwise Cabinet was the appropriate body to approve the Deed of Variation. The Committee debated the contents of the report and the key points were highlighted as follows: · Councillor Simon Hancock expressed that he was assured that the matter was that of the Executive, so was content that Cabinet had made the decision. · Councillor Michael John expressed that it would be helpful for Members to be provided with notification, when/if any changes are made to the agreement in future. [Councillor Tom Tudor joined the meeting at this juncture.] · Councillor Mike Stoddart stated that in his opinion, any situation where the Council sub-contracts powers to an outside body was a constitutional matter and therefore should be a matter for Council to consider, particularly as Council agreed the original document. He felt it should also have oversight of any variations to it, as whilst in this occasion the variation was minor, it could in future be major amendments. In response, the Solicitor clarified that her reasoning behind stating that there was a remit for full Council was limited to it being an amendment to the Terms of Reference of the Joint Overview and Scrutiny Committee but does understand that there could be some tension between it being a decision of Council to establish the Joint Committee in the first instance but not having oversight of any amendments to the functions; however that was the legislative position, and stated that it was correct for Council to determine the establishment, but later variations, with the exception of the Scrutiny Committee, were for Cabinet determination. · Councillor Michael John highlighted that the quorum amendment was in relation to the Swansea Bay City Deal Joint Committee, not just the Joint Scrutiny Committee and queried if it should have been a matter for Council. The Solicitor confirmed that the establishment of the Joint Committee was a Council function, but how it operated was a Cabinet matter, where the functions were in relation to Cabinet. She added that she understood comments which had been made suggesting that future amendments could be much more significant, and suggested that it may need to be considered, in that instance, for a report to first go to Council for discussion, before formal approval by Cabinet. · Whilst explanations had been provided Councillor Mike Stoddart expressed that he was still not satisfied with the process. Following discussion, the Committee requested that all Council Members are informed of any future changes made to the Swansea Bay City Deal Joint Committee Agreement, to which the Leader advised that he would undertake to liaise with Legal and get a note circulated in future, outlining any significant changes to the agreement. Moved by Councillor Jonathan Grimes; Seconded by Councillor Simon Hancock The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Committee noted the report [Councillor Mike Stoddart requested that his vote against the recommendation be noted.]
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RESOLVED That the Committee accepted the Welsh Language Standards Annual Report 2023-24 report and requested that the Director for Education explore ways to capture external learning undertaken via community groups to enable a broader picture to be reflected in future year’s reports.
The Committee considered a report by the Director for Education on the Welsh Language Standards Annual Report for 2023-24. The Chair welcomed the Corporate Planning Manager to the meeting to assist with any questions from Members. The two Members Champions for the Welsh Language, Councillor Delme Harries and Councillor Aled Thomas were also welcomed to the meeting to partake in the item of business. The Director for Education outlined the main points of the report and highlighted that growth had been made in some areas with other areas remaining static or decreasing, which would be investigated. It was stated that some areas required further progress; however it had been pleasing to see the growth in the learning of the Welsh language and a range of support was offered for learners, of all levels. Councillor Delme Harries, Member Champion for the Welsh Language, expressed that it had been pleasing to see increases in the use of the Welsh language. Councillor Aled Thomas, Member Champion for the Welsh Language, agreed that it was pleasing to see the increase in learners of Welsh, and stated that he would like to see that progress through to an increase in skill in future years. Disappointment was raised in relation to a decrease in the undertaking of the training needs self-assessment and requested further explanation on that matter. In response, the Director advised that there could be a range of reasons as to why individuals had not updated their self-assessments but agreed to take the point away to ensure annual completion, by integrating into performance development. Councillor Aled Thomas highlighted that the number of Welsh language designated posts had been decreasing since 2019 and queried why. The Director highlighted the variations of the Welsh language essential posts but stated that without knowing the methodology used, it was hard to establish how the figures correlated with the percentages which he agreed to take away and look at. It was added that the report did not specifically state if the figures included school based employees or not, which would vary the figures significantly, the Director stated he would make enquiries on this. The Committee debated the contents of the report and the key points were highlighted as follows: · Councillor Delme Harries noted from the report that the corporate translation service, simultaneous translation figures had decreased and requested clarification. In response the Director advised that the figures were in relation to requests by Council Members for the provision of simultaneous translation at meetings. Councillor Harries stated that the decrease in use at meetings may be due to teething problems which were being experienced with the simultaneous translation set up, however added that the issues had now been resolved. He made a plea for all Members to use the language of Welsh during meetings, where possible. · Councillor Pat Davies highlighted a range of community provisions which were assisting with Welsh language development, and following discussion it was confirmed that at present those figures would not have been captured within the report, but the Director agreed it was important for them to be included and would be happy to explore ways to capture external learning undertaken via community groups to enable a broader picture to be reflected in future years reports. Councillors Mike James and Delme Harries outlined external facilities which were available and which figures could be sought from. · Councillor Delme Harries highlighted the opening of the new Ysgol Bro Penfro school, which also had a nursery facility, which would assist in children learning Welsh from a very young age, however, concerns were raised that many learners enrolled in the school do not come from Welsh speaking homes, so a suggestion was made for additional support to be provided to those parents, to enable them to assist with their children’s education, in the language they will be learning in. The Director agreed that it was important to also support families, and stated that such support was available at other Welsh schools so would have no doubt that similar support would be provided to parents of Ysgol Bro Penfro pupils. · Councillor Michael John reiterated concerns from previous years where it had been stated that schools were struggling to recruit Welsh speaking teachers, and clarification was sought as to whether the recruitment situation had improved. The Director stated that there was still challenges regarding Welsh medium education recruitment but stated that the Authority was working with Welsh Government and the National Centre to support the development of Welsh language skills. It was added that continuous development would be made, as the Authority progressed through the agreed Welsh in Education Strategic Plan and it was added that further development was also required in relation to Welsh language teaching and supporting the families choosing the provision of Welsh language education. · In response to a query raised by Councillor Michael John in relation to the My Account percentages seeming to be slightly misleading, the Director advised that the percentage change column was the change from the previous year and needed to be considered in correlation with the figures to understand the full picture. In summing up, the Director for Education and Committee Members expressed their thanks to Kay Codd, Corporate Policy and Research Officer and Dan Shaw, Corporate Planning Manager for the work undertaken to collate the report. Moved by Councillor Michael John; Seconded by Councillor Jonathan Grimes The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Committee accepted the Welsh Language Standards Annual Report 2023-24 report and requested that the Director for Education explore ways to capture external learning undertaken via community groups to enable a broader picture to be reflected in future year’s reports.
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RESOLVED That the Committee endorsed the Overview & Scrutiny Annual Report for 2023-24, prior to consideration by Council, and requested that future year’s reports include undertaken training data and attendance figures in relation to site visits.
The Committee considered a report by the Head of Democratic Services on the Overview and Scrutiny Annual Report for 2023-24. The Head of Democratic Services outlined the report and directed Members to the Corporate Overview and Scrutiny Committee section of the report, where she highlighted the keys points for the Committee. Some examples of this was a call-in regarding an Individual Cabinet Member Decision in relation to Hybrid Mail, which demonstrated that the Committee had been proactive in holding the Executive to account. Another example was through the Committee’s monitoring of the Council’s budget and scrutiny of a number of key services and the activities of a number of key partners were also demonstration of good scrutiny. It was added that proactive work had been undertaken by the Democratic Services team to keep the public informed of what matters were due to be scrutinised, to provide the opportunity for public engagement, which in the current year an increase had been seen, which was encouraging. An increase in webcast views was also highlighted as a positive, along with the introduction of action logs for each Committee. The Chair expressed his thanks to Annere Martin, Democratic and Scrutiny Services Officer, for her work in relation to the Corporate Overview and Scrutiny Committee section of the report. The Committee debated the contents of the report and the key points were highlighted as follows: • Councillors Jonathan Grimes and Delme Harries highlighted that the attendance at meetings figure was down on previous years which was disappointing to see. Councillor Harries suggested that conversations needed to be had, where a clear downward trend was being seen, to identify why Members were not attending those meetings and the importance of Chairs assisting in attendance matters was highlighted. • Councillor Steve Alderman commented that it was pleasing to hear that there had been an increase in webcast views and that it was interesting to see such figures. • In response to a question raised by Councillor Simon Hancock, the Head of Democratic Services stated that the report did not include training figures but advised that those figures were collated by the team and could be added in for future years. • Councillor Pat Davies requested that attendance at seminars also be included for future years, which the Head of Democratic Services agreed to do. • Councillor Delme Harries queried if attendance at site visits was included within the meeting attendance figures, to which the Head of Democratic Services advised that they were not but could be added in for future years if Members thought it would be beneficial. Moved by Michael John; Seconded by Councillor Simon Hancock The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Committee endorsed the Overview & Scrutiny Annual Report for 2023-24, prior to consideration by Council, and requested that future year’s reports include undertaken training data and attendance figures in relation to site visits.
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RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the Budget Monitoring Outturn report for 2023-24 and had no recommendations to make on any areas of specific concern.
The Committee considered a joint report by the Director of Resources and Deputy Chief Finance Officers on the County Council Budget Monitoring Outturn Report for 2023-24. The Cabinet Member with responsibility for Corporate Finance and Efficiencies outlined the main points of the report and highlighted an overspend of £3m for 2023-24, but a one-off reduction in payment of Minimum Revenue Provision (MRP) to offset an overpayment of MRP when the tolls were removed from the Cleddau Bridge, reduced the figure down to £1.4m. It was stated that pressures within Social Care and Education continue to rise, along with increased demand for temporary housing. Council Tax Premium figures were also highlighted. The Director of Resources added that the projected overspend was £6.6m, so to end on a £3m overspend was welcomed but was disappointing and it was recognised that work needed to be undertaken to try to ensure that does not happen in future years. Members were informed that the overspend was due to in-year pressures from Social Care, approximately £12m. It was noted that the overspend was able to be reduced down by using the reduced MRP and money collected in relation to previous years Council Tax arrears, which meant only £0.25m had to be funded from reserves. It was stated that looking forward, challenges would be seen in relation to the Medium Term Financial Plan, as the money forecasted to be received from Welsh and UK Government, was not looking favourable. The Committee debated the contents of the report and the key points were highlighted as follows: • Councillor Mike Stoddart highlighted that the homeless figures were alarming, with an almost 600% increase over five years, and queried if those figures were a true representation, or if changes had been made to definitions which were having an impact on the figures. The Cabinet Member with responsibility for Corporate Finance and Efficiencies stated that since changes were made to Welsh Government legislation, the Council now needed to meet the needs of anyone requiring assistance with housing within a certain timeframe which was increasing pressures significantly. The Director of Resources added that whilst figures within the report show that the amount of people living in temporary accommodation had reduced, the price of that accommodation had increased, so costs were still increasing. • Following clarification sought by Councillor Mike Stoddart, the Cabinet Member confirmed that the ‘homeless at home’ category was not a large expense to the Authority, the main costs come from those placed in B&B’s. The Director of Resources agreed to find out the specific figures in relation to the ‘homeless at home’ costs to the Authority. • Councillor Jonathan Grimes made reference to the red RAG ratings for revenue collections and queried if the Authority was taking an active stance in improving debt collection, to assist with the funding gap. The Director of Resources advised that a number of changes had been made over recent years, with an increase in Officers visiting tenants who were in arrears to offer support being an important change. It was added that efforts had been made to recruit additional officers to the Revenues and Benefits team to assist with recovering arrears, although recruitment difficulties had been experienced. • In response to a suggestion by Councillor Jonathan Grimes for the Authority to consider using external agencies to assist with debt recovery, the Cabinet Member for Corporate Finance & Efficiencies agreed to take the suggestion back to the team. • Councillor Pat Davies wished to clarify that ‘homeless at home’ did not necessarily mean individuals living at home with family, it also included figures of individuals who were sofa surfing. On this point, Councillor Mike Stoddart suggested that it would be clearer for the figures to be split to clearly define those who were just living at home and wishing to move out, in comparison to those sofa surfing. • Councillor Michael John made reference to the individual school budgets, particularly those highlighted in red, and queried if in the instance those schools did not manage to recover the costs required, would that effect the Council’s budget. The Cabinet Member for Corporate Finance & Efficiencies advised that the Council have licensed deficit plans which allow schools to go into deficits, but if they do not recover from those deficits then yes, pressure would be put on the Council’s budget. It was added that a working group had been established which was looking at such matters. Moved by Councillor Michael John; Seconded by Councillor Steve Alderman The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the Budget Monitoring Outturn report for 2023-24 and had no recommendations to make on any areas of specific concern.
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RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the Budget Monitoring report for Quarter 1 2024-25 and had no specific recommendations to make on any areas of concern. [Councillors Tom Tudor and Brian Hall left the meeting at this juncture.]
The Committee considered a report by the Deputy Chief Finance Officer (Deputy S151 Officer) on the County Council Budget Monitoring Report Quarter 1 (Q1) for 2024-25. The Cabinet Member with responsibility for Corporate Finance and Efficiencies outlined the main points of the report and highlighted a predicted £2.9m overspend with the largest area of concern stated to be Children’s Services. Figures in relation to current required provision were outlined and concerns were raised that any additional requirements would further increase the overspend. Adult Services were also highlighted as a concern, with an overspend relating to nursing home placements and bespoke packages for individuals and it was noted that an overspend was also being experienced in relation to homelessness. Members were informed that 88% of budget savings were on track for Q1 but they were very challenging. It was stated that a review of the Capital Programme had been undertaken which had resulted in a reduction of the programme costs due to delaying borrowing and assessing costs. The Director of Resources outlined that unforeseen financial pressures were already being experienced in Q1 and were exceeding the predictions, which was very challenging. The Committee debated the contents of the report and the key points were highlighted as follows: • Councillor Simon Hancock made reference to the pressures being experienced in relation to Children’s Services, particularly in relation to Children’s residential placements and queried whether the opening of the West Lodge facility would assist with easing the pressure. In response, the Cabinet Member for Corporate Finance & Efficiencies advised that the West Lodge facility would assist, however recruitment issues had been experienced due to lack of specialist skills within the County so the facility was not operating at full capacity at this time. The Director of Resources advised that once the facility was operating at full capacity (four children) it would be a positive move in terms of budget as the costs per individual would be less, and it was added that duplicate facilities would be beneficial for the County if West Lodge was a success, which it was predicted to be. • In response to a question raised by Councillor Simon Hancock in relation to the costs of using agency staff, the Director of Resources advised that in some circumstances the Authority has to procure agency staff, but they come at a higher cost than core staff, however it was noted that agreements were in place to reduce agency costs. • Reference was made to the costs incurred by the Authority in relation to Asylum Seekers and information was sought as to whether the Authority was reimbursed for all costs incurred. The Cabinet Member for Finance & Efficiencies advised that there had been an increase in Asylum Seekers within the County, however the Home Office did not reimburse all costs incurred which had become a pressure for the Authority. • In response to a question raised by Councillor Simon Hancock, the Director of Resources advised that continuing healthcare was a budget saving measure for 2024-25 and it was predicted that the saving would be achieved, however the matter was still very challenging. It was added that work would continue into 2025-26 to further streamline the process. • Councillor Delme Harries highlighted the upcoming legislation changes regarding ‘looked after children’ services changing to non-profit structures and raised concerns that whilst this would have benefits, it could also reduce the number of providers. • Councillor Mike Stoddart expressed that it was his view that the Authority should make representations to Welsh Government for them to consider covering Children’s residential placement costs, on an insurance based system. • In response to a question raised by Councillor Mike James, in relation to a reduction in costs of the Capital Programme, the Cabinet Member for Finance & Efficiencies advised that the reduction was due to re-profiling works which had been conducted internally. • Councillor Michael John raised concerns with the money that the Authority would need to contribute to bridge the funding gap in relation to teacher’s pension funding, and sought further details. The Director of Resources advised that the teachers pension matter was a UK Government decision which had been delayed due to the Election and was still ongoing. The specifics of grant funding and forward planning for future years were outlined to ensure the base pressure created could be funded. The Director of Resources added that whilst there had been indication that the pay awards would be funded, nothing had formally been received in writing yet, so it remained a risk. Moved by Councillor Steve Alderman; Seconded by Councillor Pat Davies The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the Budget Monitoring report for Quarter 1 2024-25 and had no specific recommendations to make on any areas of concern. [Councillors Tom Tudor and Brian Hall left the meeting at this juncture.]
The meeting was paused at 12:14am and resumed at 12:35am.
The Committee considered a joint report and detailed presentation by the Director of Corporate Services and the Treasury and Pension Investments Manager from Carmarthenshire County Council in relation to the Dyfed Pension Fund. [Councillors Bethan Price, Simon Hancock and Jonathan Grimes left the meeting at this juncture.] Due to the above exit of Members, the meeting became inquorate and had to be adjourned. It was agreed that the presentation would be circulated to all Committee Members for consideration, and an opportunity would be given for questions to be submitted prior to the next meeting, which would be considered as part of the action log at the November meeting.
Rhaid i gynghorwyr ddweud pan fydd ganddyn nhw gysylltiad personol â rhywbeth sy'n cael ei drafod, fel swydd, eiddo neu aelod o'r teulu. Mae buddiant sy'n rhagfarnu yn ddigon cryf i'r cynghorydd adael yr ystafell fel arfer a pheidio â chymryd rhan.
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