Wrthi'n llwytho
Does dim crynodeb o'r cyfarfod hwn eto. Caiff crynodebau eu hysgrifennu pan fydd y cyngor yn cyhoeddi'r cofnodion, sef ei gofnod swyddogol o'r hyn a benderfynodd cyfarfod. Maen nhw fel arfer yn ymddangos ychydig wythnosau ar ôl y cyfarfod.
The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting.
There were none.
Members considered item 3(a) from the Cabinet Forward Work Programme.
The Cabinet member, Councillor Windham Griffiths read a statement explaining the reason for deferring the report. “Members following the valuable public meeting held at the Seaside Social and Labour Club on Friday twenty 20th of June, I've instructed officers to give careful consideration to feedback provided at that meeting along with the subsequent feedback on the matter received through social media. I'm preparing a more in-depth report that covers the range of matters that have been recently identified in relation for the on street parking charges at Aberavon and Sea Front when the Councillor listens. Therefore, these matters require further time and careful consideration by officers and members to ensure that they are fully addressed. I would like to thank the Committee Chair for agreeing to defer the report to allow for a more comprehensive and informed report to be brought back members of this scrutiny meeting before the summer recess and before cabinet members make any decision.” This item was deffered.
This item was deferred.
Members considered item 4a from the Scrutiny Forward Work Programme.
Nicola Pearce the Director of Environment gave members an overview of the report. Members were advised that the proposal was to implement part night-time lighting as a budget-saving measure. The pilot was conducted in November 2024, involving 144 lanterns covering 700 properties in seven locations. Members were advised that lights were turned off between 1:00 AM and 5:00 AM. Officers explained that consultation feedback was collected from the 700 residential properties involved in the pilot with a response rate of 16% (112 responses). Members were advised that for the question on the impact on routine: 68% reported no effect. For impact on Sleep: 62% reported no impact. In relation to overall experience: 37% reported a negative impact. And in terms of support for permanent Implementation there were 43% against, 42% in favour and 8% in favour but with changes. Officers advised that the main concerns were safety and fear of crime which were based on perception rather than actual evidence. Officers felt that the report indicated balanced feedback with no extreme responses. Members were also reminded of the three options presented in the report: 1. A larger pilot of 10,000 lights over a four-month period is undertaken. 2. Alternatively, a phase roll out, given the balanced response that we've had our members happy to do a phase roll out over a four-month peak period after which the lights remain off during the hours of 1:00 AM to 5:00 AM. 3. Or are there any alternatives that members want us to consider which we can, as I say, assess and then that the responses from any other alternatives then can be taken forward for members of cabinet to consider. Members raised concerns about the safety of young girls and women due to the lights being turned off, fearing it could lead to stalking and other crimes. Members were worried that once the public realise the lights are off in every location, it could cause issues in those areas. Members suggested the council should explore other energy-saving methods, such as installing solar panels on buildings and using timers on lights, noting that lights in the civic centre are often left on. They also proposed that when renewing streetlights, the council should consider using solar lights that generate energy during the day for use at night. Additionally, members questioned why every other streetlight couldn't be turned off instead of all lights. Nicola Pearce explained that the Council is actively implementing renewable energy generation across the county borough. The council was recently featured in a Welsh Government document for its work on charging infrastructure in the Quays and with the fleet, as well as the energy-positive building at the Baglan Energy Park. Members were advised that this recognition highlights the council's positive progress forward. Officers are developing business cases for various projects and need to ensure that the capital investments will yield positive returns. The director emphasised the importance of financial viability, noting that sometimes the desired savings in ongoing revenue may not be achieved. Members were informed that business cases are continuously reviewed due to fluctuating electricity costs, making previously unviable projects potentially worthwhile now. Officers highlighted ongoing energy initiatives across the county borough, including energy generation at the transfer station and an upcoming scheme at Giant's Grave. Timers and LEDs have been installed in Neath Civic Centre and the Quays. However, Port Talbot Civic Centre lacks timers due to current theatre renovations, with plans to upgrade the rest of the building for flexible working, including lighting improvements. Officers assured members that all possible measures to save money are being maximised. Officers explained that the council's street lighting is relatively new, thanks to the SALIX programme, which funded the replacement of lights. Officers agreed that solar lighting seems appealing but explained that it is often impractical. The council does use solar lighting in some areas to address engineering challenges, but the high cost of installation and limited winter light make it less viable. Savings from solar panels are often wiped out by their expense, making them impractical in many cases. Officers explained that past trials showed solar lighting often fails to provide sufficient light during winter, making widespread adoption challenging. Officers acknowledged that switching off every other streetlight seems like a good idea, but uniform lighting is crucial for eye adjustment and safety on highways. Therefore, dimming lights is considered a better solution. Officers noted that while turning off every other light would halve costs, dimming is more favourable. They also reminded members that many lighting schemes have been implemented, and the only remaining option to save money is partial lighting. Members observed that a lack of strong opinions in consultation responses indicates indifference on the issue. Members noted that many resident responses focused on their own homes but emphasised that public funds should be used for highway lighting, not individual houses. They observed that security lights at homes don't always deter car thieves. Members gave an example of their experience of driving in Saundersfoot, where part-night lighting nearly caused an accident due to poor visibility. Members agreed that turning off lights from 1:00am to 5:00am is acceptable and questioned why members of the public would be out during those hours, suggesting most people out at that time are shift workers. Members proposed using sensors on lights and inquired about their feasibility. They also expressed concern about the ability to reverse decisions if the council's measures prove ineffective. Officers confirmed that streetlights are meant to illuminate highways, not individual properties. They noted feedback about people needing to turn on their own lights at night for activities like using the bathroom, which streetlights previously illuminated, but emphasised that this is not their purpose. Regarding sensors, officers explained that they are generally used on smart motorways and faster roads to record traffic flows and adjust lighting accordingly. Sensors are also used in some areas with solar panels, particularly on footpaths where pedestrians walk slowly. Officers expressed uncertainty about the effectiveness of sensors for vehicles on roads, as quick reactions and visibility of the whole road are crucial. They advised against using sensors in residential areas due to potential complications and high initial costs. Officers highlighted the advantage of part-night lighting, which allows engineers to control street lighting remotely from a laptop, avoiding the high initial costs associated with manual adjustments. This system helps save money and is a significant benefit. Members questioned why further dimming of lights isn't an option. Officers explained that there are strict recommendations from the Institute of Lighting Professionals regarding road design and lighting levels, which vary depending on the road's category and configuration. They noted that many lights have already been dimmed to minimum levels, leaving little room for further reduction. Members questioned why lights, if already dimmed to the lowest safe level, could be turned off. Officers explained that turning off lights provides uniformity, which is different from dimming. Members noted that old sodium vapor lights, which were dimmer and in the red-light spectrum, seemed better for the health of animals and people. They asked if emulating this, could be a solution. Officers explained that road lighting has evolved; older lights provided a warmer orange glow, creating silhouettes, while modern LEDs focus on illuminating objects directly. Although some prefer warmer light for its environmental benefits, current standards use 3000 to 4000 Kelvin LEDs for efficiency. Members expressed concerns about completely turning off lights due to potential accidents and the impact on people with visual impairments. They inquired about the council's approach to capital investment for long-term efficiencies, asking how far ahead the council projects. Nicola Pearce explained that the longevity of each capital project varies and explained that investing in a building typically offers a longer lifespan and better returns than investing in a car for example. Members then asked about the projection period for lighting investments, questioning if it extends five years or more. Officers indicated that there are no additional investments that could further reduce revenue pressure beyond the current measures, such as installing electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure. This infrastructure typically has a 20-year lifespan, and if the investment cannot be recouped within that period, it is not considered viable. Members were informed that some organizations invest in reducing their carbon footprint for environmental reasons, even if it costs more. The council's current activities aim to address both environmental and budgetary concerns due to a significant budget shortfall. These measures are necessary to reduce overall costs and avoid cutting services, a challenge the council has faced for the past 15 years. Members noted that only 16% of the 700 homes responded to the feedback, with opinions split, resulting in 8% negative responses. They suggested expanding the trial to different areas and consulting with the police to target these areas. Officers mentioned that one option in the report is a four-month pilot, turning off 2,500 lanterns each month, scaling up to 10,000 lanterns. This pilot would help the council understand the impact over a wider area. Officers have consulted with the police, who have raised no concerns so far. Other groups, such as 'Thrive,' have been consulted and have expressed general concerns about safety. Officers will continue to work with these groups, keeping them informed and considering their feedback. Members expressed concerns about the safety of females, elderly, and young people if streetlights are dimmed or turned off. They requested reports on similar pilots in other councils. Members emphasised that street lighting is a statutory service and that should be non-negotiable. They shared personal experiences of feeling unsafe in poorly lit town centres during winter, contrasting with the safety felt in well-lit villages. Members suggested that other directorates with larger budgets should be considered for savings instead. They planned to discuss the issue with the Police and Crime Commissioners to get their opinion in an upcoming meeting they had with the Commissioner. Officers acknowledged that safety concerns affect everyone, not just specific groups. They chose the 1:00 AM to 5:00 AM timeframe to minimise the impact on people walking or returning from social events. This timing aims to affect as few people as possible. Regarding budget cuts, officers are exploring all options due to an £8-£9 million budget gap. Each director has been asked to find savings, and if these are not achieved, cuts to services will be necessary. Officers explained that cuts have been made to statutory services, which must still be provided, though perhaps not at the previous quality. This situation is not ideal, and the director expressed a desire for more staff to improve public services, but this is not currently possible. Regarding the Police and Crime Commissioner, officers are open to feedback from members meetings with the Police and Crime Commissioner but have been consulting with the police throughout the process. The police have generally been supportive and have identified areas where council actions should not interfere with their operations. Officers have avoided these areas. Members were concerned about the low response rate from the public and cautioned against assuming non-responses indicate agreement, as this can be misleading. Members raised concerns about the functionality of security cameras on doorbells if street lighting is turned off, noting that officers were unsure if they would still work. They questioned why the police have not opposed the plan, given their reliance on public CCTV footage for investigations, and expressed a desire to discuss this further with the police. Members worried that awareness of unlit areas could lead to an actual increase in crime, particularly affecting violence against women, domestic abuse, and sexual violence. They emphasised the council's duty to protect the public and felt that more questions need to be addressed before expanding the rollout, even on a trial basis. Officers explained that they cannot force residents to respond to consultation exercises, although they did encourage feedback. They noted that the functionality of CCTV cameras depends on their grade, with many having a night mode for low-light conditions. Officers noted that it is generally not recommended to switch off lights in areas with police CCTV, and they will continue to consult with the police and consider their opinions. Members inquired about the impact on adopted highways and highlighted that many burglaries occur during the day, suggesting that the timing of lighting adjustments should be considered throughout the year. They also raised concerns about the safety of narrow streets with parked cars, which could become more dangerous in the dark. Members advocated for a trial-and-error approach and emphasized the importance of being open to reversing decisions if they prove ineffective. Officers explained that the council does not maintain lighting on unadopted roads until they are officially adopted. Once adopted, these roads could be reviewed and potentially added to the lighting scheme. For unadopted streets not under council management, the council does not pay the electric bill and therefore would not turn off those lights. Regarding the possibility of reversing decisions, officers noted that a pilot program would help assess the impacts of part-night lighting and determine if it is the right approach. This trial would allow testing on a wider scale. Officers addressed concerns about vehicle movements in narrow streets, explaining that between 1:00 AM and 5:00 AM, there is limited traffic, and vehicles would have their lights on to navigate safely. Members suggested adjusting the part-night lighting schedule to accommodate social activities, particularly on weekends. They also questioned why industrial estates remain well-lit early in the morning when they are empty and proposed turning off those lights after 9:00 PM. Officers highlighted that the report offers two potential options for progress and a third option to gather ideas from members. They are open to exploring whether the suggestions would work and stressed the importance of a flexible approach that evolves over time. If the option is approved, officers could discuss the specifics of industrial estates, considering that some may have nighttime deliveries requiring lighting for larger vehicles and equipment. These discussions would take place before implementation, allowing the plan to adapt as needed. Members felt that having to turn off lights felt like a backwards step and while they appreciated that the council has to save money, it needs to be balanced with the need of a social life and normality. Members felt that in the past crime was lower and they felt safer at night even as men. Members commented that one of the areas where the pilot took place was, was in their ward where it seemed to have worked well and they received no complaints from their residents. Following scrutiny, Option 3 was supported to Cabinet.
There were no performance monitoring items.
The Forward work programme was noted.
There were none
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