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The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting. The Chair confirmed that Democratic Services have received apologies from Cllr J. Curtice, Cllr V. Holland and Cllr D. Cundy.
There were none.
The minutes of the meeting held on 18/10/24 as an accurate record of the proceedings.
Charlotte Hodges Lead Principal Auditor for Pembrokeshire County Council gave members an overview of the report as included in the agenda pack. Members were advised that the report outlined the terms of reference that the Joint Committee approved at their 17 December 2024 meeting to allow the annual Internal Audit Review of Swansea Bay City Deal for 24/25 to be undertaken. Officers explained that the Terms of Reference details the areas the Internal Audit review will focus on, which is separately listed within Section 2 of the Appendix these included the governance, project management and monitoring, internal control, and financial and risk management arrangements in place. Members were advised that the work programme has been prepared in accordance with the requirements of the Public Sector Internal Audit Standards and was developed in consultation with the Swansea Bay City Deal, Section 151 Officer, Monitoring Officer and Portfolio Director prior to submission to the Joint Committee for their approval in December. Officers anticipate the field work will begin early 2025 and will be completed by the end of March 2025. Members were informed that normal reporting procedures will be followed, allowing the draft report to be considered by officers before the final report is presented to the Joint Committee. Members did not have any questions. The report was noted.
Sam Cutlan-Dillon, Skills and Talent Programme Manager of the Programme gave members an update presentation on the progress made and the status of the skills and talent initiative. Members were informed that the programme aims to: · Deliver 2,200 additional skills · Support 14,000 individuals to achieve higher levels by 2030 · Create 3,000 new apprenticeship opportunities from Level 3 to degree apprenticeships · Develop 20 new and updated course frameworks to provide a clear educational pathway The pillars are digital construction, energy, smart manufacturing and life science and well-being and to create 2 centres of excellence. · Sam Cutlan-Dillon created a skills barometer to assess job creation from the eight city deal projects, current training provisions, and identify gaps. This allows partners and stakeholders to create new qualifications, pathways, and apprenticeship routes as needed. · Members were informed that as of December 2024, 27 pilot projects been approved and are now mostly in delivery. · There are 6 new apprenticeship routes developed from level through from level 2 through to degree in user experience with a further 4 apprenticeship update/developments also in t This has been approved that that work is ongoing. · Discussions are ongoing regarding future pilot projects with several partners and stakeholders to create a steady pipeline of new skills. · Members were informed that the business case can pivot and change and react to changes within the region and there are several concept ideas for centres of excellence currently identified. · Officers advised it is very industry led in terms of gaps in terms of recruitment needs and this feeds into skills solution group and through skills solution group to RSP board. · There are currently 3217 higher skilled individuals. · The target for increased skills is 2,200 and that has been exceeded with a current total of 33,846. · There are currently 184 apprenticeships with a target of 3000. · There are 32 currently for course creation and this exceeds the target of 20. Officers expect this further increase. · Members were informed that for the Centre of excellence target is 2 but is currently at 0, this is expected to be achieved by the end of the programme focusing specifically on Manufacturing and Energy. · Officers’ public investment currently amounts to £1.5 million. · Private investment through the pilot projects amounts to just over £1,580,000. · The private apprenticeship investment is £1,435,000. Members noted that there was an article in the press regarding the shortfall in apprenticeships Members asked for examples of the number of highly increasing skills. Members asked in what sections the apprenticeships has fallen behind in the in the programme? Officers explained that they are working across five sectors to enhance higher skills, Members were informed that the business case was approved in 2021, with pilot projects starting that year and lasting up to two years. Many have completed, with some projects now closed or moving to closing. Officers used the example of Passport for Employment program in Pembrokeshire, which focused on engineering offshore wind energy. The pilot project has just concluded, successfully meeting all targets for higher-skilled individuals. Further activities are also ongoing. Members were informed that the Passport to Employment Destination Renewables project is award-winning, with Pembrokeshire leading the way by winning three awards from STEM and Offshore Skills Awards. Officers noted that the project is being rolled out in Scotland and Cornwall, with interest from Canada and Morocco. Members were informed that the industry-led approach has been key to their success, as it directly meets employers' needs in terms of quality and level. Officers noted that apprenticeships are more complex due to factors beyond their control. Officers noted that they were aware of the press and felt that it was unfortunate that some of the highlights that were taken from that meeting. They explained that since the City Deal's inception, apprenticeships across Wales have faced significant changes, including a 14% funding cut. This reduction means less money is available to deliver apprenticeships through Welsh Government and raining providers. Members were informed that Welsh Government priorities have shifted towards higher-level, better-quality apprenticeships. This means they cost more to deliver, resulting in fewer apprenticeships for the same amount of funding under the City Deal. Officers explained that the slower uptake of apprenticeships is linked to delays in the other eight city deal projects. These delays in getting off the ground and starting construction mean that apprenticeships cannot be recruited until the projects are fully underway. Officers are collaborating with strategic partners to ensure apprenticeship recruitment continues, increases, and meets targets. They created a new apprenticeship framework in just six months, a process that usually takes over two years, to address a global skills gap, not just in Southwest Wales. Officers are also supporting colleges and independent training providers to ensure they can deliver these new skills. This involves having qualified individuals to teach the new qualifications as they are developed. The outputs need to be achieved by 2030, with spending continuing until then. March 2028 They have received an extension to March 2028, and officers are confident they will meet the targets. Members highlighted broader issues beyond the control of the city deal, questioning whether there are enough applicants for these apprenticeships. They noted that while applications are exceeding expectations, the biggest challenge remains the amount of funding available. Members were informed that while there is strong interest from individuals and demand from employers, the number of apprenticeships that can be delivered is limited by the available funding. Members asked for some examples of the Centre of Excellence. Members noted that officers are sure they are going to exceed 2 and asked for examples of where they are and what they do. Officers have a couple earmarked and because they are not building a centre, there's no capital spend and is instead about an amalgamation of activity around a certain sector and a certain local authority areas Members were given the example of Pembrokeshire, where officers have collaborated with Pembrokeshire Council, Pembrokeshire College, and industry partners like Pembroke Dock Marine. This collaboration focuses on the new job roles that will be available in the area. Officers have got 4 pilot projects around energy engineering, STEM taking place in Pembrokeshire, which will help to create a centre of excellence around offshore energy in Pembrokeshire, which ties in with Pembroke Dock Marine. Officers stated that some of the projects are already award-winning and are being looked at to be rolled out globally. Officers are focusing on manufacturing in Neath Port Talbot, leveraging ongoing inward investment efforts. The Celtic Freeport project is expected to significantly impact the region's skills needs, and officers are closely monitoring this development. Officers feel that they can pivot and change, and can focus spend where it's needed, when it's needed. Members emphasized the importance of quickly retraining or placing skilled workers from Neath Port Talbot's steelworks into new positions to prevent them from leaving the area. This is crucial to retain their expertise and support the local economy. Members are concerned that these people can be brought back if they are needed or that new people and apprentices are trained. Jane E Lewis advised members that when the business plan was written, officers weren't aware of the position that Tata Steel was in or the Celtic Freeport and offshore wind opportunities. Officers explained that the creation of Centres of Excellence is not about constructing new buildings. Instead, it focuses on bringing together colleges, universities, training providers, and local authorities to leverage the key strengths of each area. Officers emphasized that manufacturing is a key sector in Neath Port Talbot, attracting essential skills to the county. The skills partnership has throughout all the changes that have happened because of COVID and other circumstances have been looking how can they change some of the directions of travel. Officers are keen to retrain TATA employees and the skills in the region, acknowledging their immediate need for employment. They are highlighting future opportunities in Port Talbot, Pembrokeshire, Swansea, and Carmarthenshire over the next 10-30 years, so these workers can return and contribute to their communities after gaining skills elsewhere, like at Hinkley Point. Members noted that the company JES have got a skill centre built for welding and construction and asked if the skills and talent can help in any way as it is a great example to re-train and upskill people that come up with the works. Officers confirmed that they are in communication with JES and they are looking to put in an application for funding from the skills and talent programme. The report was noted.
Stephen Aldred-Jones Regional Finance Manager advised members that the audit of accounts report 23/24 went to the Joint committee in November. Members were advised that the Auditor General for Wales is responsible for providing an opinion on whether the statement accounts for demonstrate a true and fair view of the position of the Swansea Bay City deal as of the 31st of March 2024. Officers explained that the ISA 260 report summarises the findings undertaken from the audit. The audit gave an unqualified opinion in the accounts and there were no misstatements identified in the accounts which remain uncorrected. Members were advised that the audit concluded that the financial statements do give a true and Fairview of the City deal as of the 31st of March 2024 and obviously income and expenditure for the year and that the accounts have been properly prepared in accordance with the legislative requirements. Officers felt that this was another clean audit of the accounts for the City deal As for as per the previous year. The report was noted.
Stephen Aldred Jones Regional Finance Manager advised that the statement of accounts went to scrutiny on the 24th October 2024 and it was the pre audit. This report is now the post audit. Members were advised that as per the ISA 260, there were no material changes required and very, few minor changes required following the audit. Officers highlighted an error on the "related parties note" on page 39 of the statement, for which they apologised. This error was identified during the audit but did not affect any figures in the statement. Members were advised that it was just an error in one of the notes. Officers also confirmed that there were some minor wording changes to help clarify the notes and the statement. The report was noted.
Stephen Aldred Jones introduced the Quarterly financial Monitoring Q1 and Q2 24/25 as included in the agenda pack. Members asked why City deal gives back £3 million and why isn’t it held centrally for projects as they progress. Members noted significant slippages in the Homes as Power Stations project and inquired if officers are confident that house builders will proceed. They also asked about the potential for further issues. Members asked if there was an over or underspend with Swansea Arena. Officers confirmed a slight underspend with the arena project. Members inquired about the status of the Innovation Precinct project and whether it is still proceeding. Officers advised that they weren’t sure and that once the quarter three figures come back, they will have a great understanding. Members asked if there was slippage elating to Supporting Innovation and Low Carbon Growth. Members inquired if the digital infrastructure project has received additional private sector funding for further work. Officers explained that for digital infrastructure, an annual review of the private sector is undertaken, and these figures are a year lag from the previous financial year. A private company do the review of the private sector and then they work out how much private sector money has been invested. Peter Austin, Business Engagement Manager, confirmed additional private sector funding. Officers explained that the digital project is monitored with a one-year lag, as they need to complete the work before assessing its impact. This delay makes forecasting challenging and causes fluctuations between forecasts and year-end outcomes. In relation to the £3 million interest question, members were advised that at the end of financial year for 23/24 there was £54.4 million of City deal grants sat in the account. The grant money is due to partners, but it can’t be paid out to partners until they claimed it until they've spent the money. So that sat in the account generating £3 million in interest and this will be paid to each local authority based on a proportion of a city deal grant. Officers used a hypothetical example of a £241 million city deal grant. If Swansea had a £24.1 million city deal grant, they would receive 10% of the £3 million interest. Interim payments are also made through the year to help each local authority offset the additional rising costs of undertaking their city deal projects. Members were advised that it is down to each local authority how they use that interest. Members asked if it is revenue a month or if it is capital? Officers advised that it is revenue as it is interest. In relation to SWITCH there has been an increase in construction costs and which needs a review of the cost plans however, the project is now progressing to REBA Stage 4 with planning due to be submitted in quarter three, quarter 24/25 Officers feel that overall they are still expected to or we'll be projecting to spend the full grant element and is just slippage, down to the AMPF land negotiations have slowed things down where they spend for the year. The report was noted.
Peter Austin Business Engagement Manager updated members on the Quarterly Portfolio monitoring Q2 24/25 as included in the report pack. Members were advised that one of the most important things the committee should be aware of is ‘risks’ and ‘issues’. Officers reminded members that concerns about slippage have been raised in past years. They explained that slippage occurs in two ways: physical slippage, which is the actual delivery of projects, and in-year financial slippage. Officers advised that they took the decision prior to the last joint committee to move these from being risks to being issues because they are affecting the portfolio delivery. Members were informed that this elevates the importance of slippages. Officers are currently preparing a slippage report for the joint committee and scrutiny committee, examining causes, effects, and possible mitigations to expedite projects. Members were given the following highlights of the report. • The Bay Technology Centre is currently sitting at over 50% occupancy. • SWITCH is progressing and is also awaiting a decision by the transition board for extra funding through Tata. • Pentre Awel is almost complete and is due to open during this quarter. Officers explained that the dry and wet leisure facilities will open prior to the health elements of it and that is because of the amount of time it will take the health boards to fit out their areas. • Members were advised that the digital infrastructure project is making excellent progress across all its three delivery arms. • Swansea waterfront will see 71/72 Kingsway building opening soon and officers noted that it is already making a significant impact on the nightscape of Swansea. A pre-opening event has happened, and the building will be open in quarter two this year. • The Arena hotel negotiations are progressing well and officers are positive. • The Innovate Innovation Matrix with Trinity St David opened during the summer and is over 50% occupied with marketing for the existing space ongoing. • Officers also advised that the innovation precinct is progressing subject to a review with the partners due to several reasons. • Yr Egin Stage 1 is fully occupied and is progressing well and stage 2 is, is currently being reassessed by the delivery partners, because of a change in what the creative sector might require after the pandemic. • Homes as power stations is progressing well but has experienced some slippage, which is down to the delivery partners which are primarily either private or public sector housing associations. HAPS has 2 demo houses up and running which show how effective the HAPS technology can be. • The Pembroke Dock Marine project now has all the physical infrastructure works complete including the major construction components within the port and the hangar annexes. • The Campuses project is making good progress with the Sketty Lane development procured and they have appointed a contractor for design and build. This is going to start with the advanced design element. They also have had a successful Vodafone bid working with the Digital Infrastructure project as well as part of that development. In relation to portfolio objectives members were concerned about the way in which the investment is going. Members noted that officers are looking at the definitions of investment and asked if that definition was clear. Members expressed concern that job creation timelines in the report might not align with the front-loaded projects, potentially leaving posts unfilled for up to 15 years. They asked if officers expect universities to supply the needed workforce. Officers clarified that the description focus is on the number of jobs created, not necessarily the number of people. These jobs can be directly or indirectly created across the portfolio. The 9,000 jobs were never expected to be directly created by the projects themselves but are outcomes of the projects' operations. Officers cited Swansea Arena as an example, noting that the new jobs created there are significant. They also mentioned that the expansion of smaller businesses in the Copper Bay Area, benefiting from the arena, counts as indirect job creation. Officers noted a similar situation in Carmarthenshire with S4C moving to Yr Egin. While half of the staff were relocated from Cardiff the rest were hired locally. Members were informed that S4C's move created jobs, both directly and indirectly, through the expansion of smaller supply chain businesses and the creative sector. Officers are confident that 9,000 jobs will be created, but assessing the number of people employed is a different matter. Members were informed that the opening of the Kingsway and the arrival of tenants will create jobs. Some tenants will bring their own staff, while others will hire locally, contributing to job creation. Members welcomed officers' confidence in reaching 9,000 jobs, noting the urgent need. However, they were sceptical, pointing out that Swansea Arena, which cost over £40 million to build, currently employs only 26 full-time staff. They felt this number is low given the investment. Members felt that jobs that go to 71/72 the Kingsway will down to displacement from other places because firms that are in the area are going to move in there. Members felt that in Llanelli the current leisure centre will close, and the staff will be moving over to the new one in Pentre Awel so it won’t necessarily create additional jobs. Members felt that it is important that officers have the confidence in job creation because members are asked by the public where the jobs will be coming from the public investment put in and they can give the public that reassurance. Members noted that there is normally a benefits realisation register as part of the report, and they were disappointed that it wasn’t included as it gives them a quick overview of the jobs that have been created and the investment that's come in that particular quarter. Members noted that on Page 177 it says benefits realisation and increasing jobs, but it isn’t the same as the previous iterations. The democratic services officer advised that he would check on this omission and see if that information can be provided or check if that information can be re-included in reports in the future. The report was noted.
Peter Austin Business Engagement Manager noted that members had already referenced the portfolio objective definitions in the last item and explained that the purpose of these definitions is to allow all the projects to work to a set definition of each of these objectives. Officers explained that some definitions are easier for them to work out than others. The jobs created objective was quite difficult for officers. These definitions have gone through programme board and joint committee who have agreed that that they are the set definitions that the projects will work to when officers are working out their benefit realisation figures and planning their targets. The report was noted.
Peter Austin invited members of the joint scrutiny committee to add anything they wanted to the forward work programme. Members asked what officers meant by the ‘work plan’ and asked if that meant that members give officers suggestions about further detail of a particular project or do officers want details of the financial inputs? Officers explained that it covers everything from events to meetings. Officers gave the example that if the scrutiny committee wanted to do a visit to one of the projects over and above its normal schedule, this could be added or if members wanted to have a presentation from any of the projects. The report was noted.
Members requested a site visit to 71/72 the Kingsway The Members of the Committee noted the Forward Work Programme.
There were none.
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