Wrthi'n llwytho
Does dim crynodeb o'r cyfarfod hwn eto. Caiff un ei ysgrifennu pan fydd y cyngor yn cyhoeddi'r cofnodion. Mae'r agenda a'r papurau isod.
No apologies for absence were received.
There were no declarations of interest made at the beginning or during the course of the meeting.
The Chairman opened the meeting and introductions were made. The Legal Advisor outlined the procedure for the meeting and reported that Members had previously familiarised themselves with the report of the Licensing Officer, the application and plan of the premises together with the written submissions from the Police, Licensing Authority and Environmental Health (Health and Safety) as Responsible Authorities. The Licensing Manager presented the report which outlined the application submitted to vary the premises licence at The Unit 21-23 Afon Court, Bedwas House Industrial Estate, Bedwas, Caerphilly CF83 8XP, Members were advised that three things needed to be considered with this application. Firstly, given the increase of the footprint of the premises due to occupying an additional unit and adding an additional floor to the premises, Members were directed to the revised plan and photographs of the premises within the appendices of the report bundle. Secondly the applicant sought to remove a number of conditions which may no longer be relevant or duplicated existing legislative requirements, these conditions were highlighted on pages 4 and 5 of the report. Thirdly the applicant sought to increase the hours for the sale of alcohol listed below for the supply of alcohol (on and off sales). Sale of Alcohol (on and off sales) · Sunday 10:00 – 23:30 hours · Monday to Thursday 09:00 – 00:00 hours · Friday and Saturday 09:00 – 4:00 hours The Licensing Manager then referred to representations received in relation to the application from the Police, Environmental Health (Health and Safety) and the Licensing Authority as Responsible Authorities. Copies of which were circulated with the agenda. Members were informed of a typing error in the pack on item 1.5.1 – The Date of Police representations date received should state 14th May 2024 not 14th April 2024. Members were advised that there were no objections from the Responsible Authorities to the revised plan or intention to remove conditions, save for condition 11 of the existing premises licence. It was confirmed that the conditions advocated by the Environmental Health, Health and Safety Officer had been agreed by the applicant. Gwent Police and the Licensing Authority had objected to the proposed increased hours sought by the applicant and no agreement had been reached with the Applicant. Attention was then drawn to the local policy considerations as set out within the report and to the way in which the Sub Committee should deal with the application. It was explained that the Sub Committee must have regard to the report, the representations made and to the evidence heard. It must take such steps as is considered necessary for the promotion of the licensing objectives. The Licensing Manager confirmed he had nothing further to add, save for questions as to the report. The Chair invited questions for the Licensing Manager. The Chair sought clarification on the procedure for dealing with applications where there were no objections from residents or Responsible Authorities and those applications where objections had been received and how they came to the Taxi and General Sub Committee. The Licensing Manager confirmed that Officers have delegated authority to approve a licence in the event of no objections and where any representations had been received or because the position has not been agreed between all parties that would be when the application would need to be referred to the Licensing and Gambling sub Committee for a decision to be made by Members. There were no further questions for the Licensing Manager and the Chair invited the applicant to make their submissions. Mr Kedward thanked the Chair and confirmed that he accepted the recommendations put forward and only sought to challenge the change of the hours that he had proposed. Members were advised that Mr Kedward had met with the Licensing Authority and Gwent Police and was under the impression that a verbal agreement had been made about the change in hours during that meeting. The Legal Advisor confirmed that the Sub Committee would take this point into consideration along with everything that had been discussed today when making their decision. The Legal Advisor referred to the two events in March and May where the Licensing Authority had noted in their representations concerns about the management and their knowledge of the licensing objectives, Members were directed to page 47 of the report. It was requested that Mr Kedward provided his views of the two events and confirmation was sought on whether Mr Kedward was aware of what their licencing objectives were. Mr Kedward explained what had occurred on both occasions where there were alleged instances which resulted in staff contacting the police to deal with the alleged instances. In relation to the question about knowledge of the licensing conditions Mr Kedward confirmed that at the beginning it was confusing as there were 15 conditions within the licence and following advice from the Responsible Authorities, Mr Kedward sought to remove some of those conditions under the application before the Sub Committee. Clarification was sought on when the size of the premises increased by using the adjoining unit and mezzanine level. Mr Kedward advised that the adjoining unit had already formed part of the licence and that it had been used previously for storage and was in the process of being converted into a pool room but could not recall when this changed. In relation to the mezzanine level Mr Kedward advised that it had always been there and was used as a storage area and was brought into use just over two years ago as the business grew and developed. The Legal Advisor requested confirmation as to where the exact position of the bar was for the event that was held in the outside area. Mr Kedward confirmed that the bar was just outside one of the shutter doors and that an additional tent was put up to shut off the road with permission from the landlord. Members were directed to page 19 of the pack and Mr Kedward was asked if he could outline the exact area that he was seeking to include within the proposals. Mr Kedward confirmed the area to be included which covered the two shutter doors and the front of the business to where the umbrella was on the photograph across the three bays, and it was proposed to have 4 benches outside of each bay in total 12 benches. It was confirmed that the area proposed was included in the lease from the landlord. A Member sought confirmation on the times that were being proposed to vary the licence. Mr Kedward confirmed that the times had changed from what was originally requested following discussions with the Licensing Authority and Gwent Police after it had been explained about the responsibility for getting people home at reasonable time and the use of taxi services, it was also at that meeting that the conversation was discussed about removing some of the conditions. The times now sought were Monday to Friday 9am until 12:00 midnight and Friday 9am until 12:30 and Sunday 10am to 11:30 with everyday having 30 minute cool down time. Mr Kedward confirmed that changing the hours in the morning to 9am would enable the business to offer a pint with breakfast for people who were going away on holidays or stag do’s. The Chair queried why there had been no request for additional licence arrangements for music or food to be served. Mr Kedward confirmed that the existing licence covered music and food and that they would not be offered outside of those times and confirmed that following discussions with Gwent Police and Licensing Authority the amended hours was proposed. The Legal Advisor discussed the option of applying for temporary events notice if required and Mr Kedward confirmed that they would stick with the hours that they were proposing. The Chair referred to page 9 of the report where it confirmed that the representations had been agreed with Health and Safety Officer, but no confirmation has been received from the applicant in respect of the proposed conditions suggested by the Police and the Licensing Authority in its role as a Responsible Authority. Mr Kedward stated that he had responded and requested a further meeting to have continued discussions. It was also confirmed that Mr Kedward was happy to accept all representations and only challenged the hours. Mr Kedward referred to representations from Gwent Police on page 38 where it stated that the proposed hours was until 23:30. It was explained that the issue would be discussed when the police provided their representations. The Chair stated that if the licence were granted to change the hours to 9am that would not just be for holiday period and would mean that alcohol would be served all year. It was also raised about the intention to deliver alcohol from the premises and Mr Kedward was asked to confirm if this was his plans. Mr Kedward confirmed that this was an option that he was looking to explore at some point. In relation to opening at 9am Mr Kedward stated that as a small business and as not many others offered breakfast with a pint this would attract people to the venue. A Member queried whether the mezzanine floor and pool table area were currently being used and whether alcohol was taken onto the mezzanine floor. Mr Kedward confirmed that both areas were being used and the mezzanine floor was used for darts and that no alcohol was taken on that floor. There were no further questions for Mr Kedward and the Chair invited the Responsible Authorities to make their representations. PC. A. Jones addressed the Sub Committee outlining the representations included within the report. Clarification was sought from PC Jones as to whether Gwent Police opposed the increase of the hours across the board or whether they were content with an extended period and what period that would be. PC Jones confirmed that Gwent Police would advocate that the Committee keep the licensable hours the same as the current licence permits. The Legal Advisor sought confirmation on whether there was a history of any anti-social behaviour from the premises not including the two incidents already discussed, it was confirmed that there was no history. Members were advised that Gwent Police oversee three Council areas and do not visit premises unless there were calls logged or if there was a demand for a visit then it would happen. When visiting premises the police would either attend alone or accompanied by the Licensing Authority where the cause of the call would be looked at and the actions of the licensee and whether the licence holder understood that license. Members were advised that it became apparent on the first visit that there was no clear understanding of the licence and its conditions. A query was raised on page 41 where the Police wanted some condition reworded which included children and young persons must vacate the premises by 23:00 and confirmation was sought on whether this would apply even if the hours remained the same. PC Jones confirmed that it would apply if there was a sporting event, if not then they would have to leave by 9pm. Mr Kedward requested if PC Jones could confirm the number of times the police had been called to attend the premises and queried whether a verbal agreement had been made at the meeting on the hours proposed. PC Jones confirmed that there had been three calls logged for the premises and that generated the police to make contact to request a meeting. In relation to whether an agreement had been made PC Jones confirmed that his colleague PC Taylor had agreed informally but after consideration and consultation with the local Inspector the decision was made that Gwent Police object to the extension of hours and that they should remain the same because of a lack of confidence in the promotion of the licensing objectives and a full understanding of the licence. There were no further questions for PC Jones and the Chair invited the Environmental Health, Health, and Safety Officer to make their representations. The Health and Safety Officer addressed the Sub Committee outlining the representations included within the report and confirmed that Mr Kedward had accepted those representations. There were no questions for The Health and Safety Officer and the Chair invited the Licensing Authority to make their representations. The Senior Licensing Officer addressed the Sub Committee outlining the representations included within the report, which included background information on the visits undertaken to the premises by the Licensing Authority, Gwent Police and the Environmental Health Pollution Control and the reasons for these visits. Confirmation was provided that on the second visit following the unauthorised event. During the visit on the 1st of May with Mr Kedward and his colleague Mr Gareth Jones photographs were shown that showed the exact location of the additional bar. Members were referred to page 19 which showed the photograph of the outside of the premise, Mr Jones had provided a different location to that shown in the photograph. It was therefore in the opinion of the Licensing Authority that the bar was outside of what the current licensable area would be. An email was sent to Mr Kedward on the 2nd of May, which indicated to Mr Kedward that the Licensing Authority would not support an extension in the licensed hours, given the two visits that were undertaken to the premise and the advice that was provided, particularly following the first visit where the mezzanine floor had been identified that the area had been extended into the premises next door, which would be contrary to the current premises licence. At the meeting, the licence was discussed, and it identified potential conditions that could come off the licence, mainly because they were duplicated, but that did not mean to say that the conditions were on there at that point in time were not being complied with. It did not appear that Mr Kedward or anybody else understood the licence and the requirements placed upon it. As such, the recommendation in the representations would be to not support the extension in licensable hours. The Committee were advised that there were no representations regarding the extending of the premises to include upstairs, extending into the next door premise and extending the forecourt of the of the front of the premises. A requirement for the forecourt would be that a definite delineation of the outside area would be required to ensure that the premises licence holder and all staff understands the extent of the premises. Members were advised that in the email on the 2nd of May, It requested that Mr Kedward provided information that were conditions of his licence be sent through following the unauthorised event and this has not been provided. This demonstrated concerns in the ability of the premise to be managed correctly in line with the four licensing objectives. A Member enquired as to why Mr Kedward had not replied to the Licensing Authority. It was confirmed that Mr Kedward believed that it would be incorporated in the process of the Licensing and Gambling Sub Committee, Mr Kedward sought clarification as to what information was requested. The Officer confirmed that training records for those additional members of staff taken on for the unauthorised event. The Committee were advised that Mr Kedward had provided training records to the food hygiene or Environmental Health team. The Licensing Authority was not aware that colleagues in another team had received the records and emphasised that the email of the 2nd May had requested that the records be provided to the Licensing Authority. The Legal Advisor sought clarification on the representations from the Licensing Authority and asked if in summary was it that they do not have confidence for the premises to be managed with earlier and later hours. The Officer confirmed that they were not confident in the management, based on interactions over the past few months on seeing how the premise had been managed. The Chair sought confirmation on the extending of the forecourt and asked if there were planters marking the area would that be sufficient. The Officer confirmed that would ensure where the licensed area was. Mr Kedward confirmed that there are café barriers in position to section off the areas as recommended. All parties were then afforded the opportunity to sum up before the Licensing and Gambling Sub Committee retired to make its decision. In closing the Licensing Manager asked Members to consider all the representations before them, the evidence heard at the meeting, and all Licensing guidance when making their decision. The Sub Committee were reminded of the need to consider the promotion of the Licensing Objectives and whether the applicant would be able to meet the same. Gwent Police objected to the revised times. Gwent Police were not confident in the management of the premises and would advocate the Committee to not offer an extension of the licensing hours based on the licensing objectives and in particular the management being unable at this stage to promote the licensing objectives. After discussions with the local Inspector and careful consideration, Gwent Police are of the opinion that any extension of the licensing times would undermine the licensing objectives. The Environmental Health and Safety Officer confirmed that representations had been accepted by the applicant and if the committee granted the licence a follow up visit would be arranged from Health and Safety perspective. The Licensing Authority advised that they had no further comments other than to confirm that they would have no representations regarding extending the area to include the upstairs mezzanine area, the adjacent unit and the extending out on the forecourt area outside given that Mr Kedward had already introduced the barriers following recommendations but confirmed that the Officer would not support the extension in the licensing hours. Mr Kedward summed up by confirming that he would accept the recommendations made by all parties and requested the reduced hours be considered by the Committee. Mr Kedward advised that this was a small business trying to provide local people with jobs and trying to compete with bigger companies. The Legal Advisor informed all parties present that the Sub Committee would retire to consider the representations made at the meeting and they would be informed in writing of the decision in the next 5 days. The Sub Committee retired at 11:01am to make its decision and all other parties left the meeting.
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