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The decisions as the council's minutes record them. A plain-language summary follows once it has been written.
RESOLVED (a) That the updates in respect of actions arising from the 25 November 2024 meeting and associated appendices (update on Care Inspectorate Wales 2024 Inspection for Adults Services and the progress being made to address the recommendations contained within the Children’s Complex Care Packages Follow-Up Internal Audit review), be noted. (b) That the Head of Housing be invited to provide an informal briefing on how the Social Housing Grant was currently utilised, to include information in relation to purchasing from the open market in comparison to building new housing and how the housing waiting list operated. Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the updates in respect of actions arising from the 10 December 2024 meeting be noted.
RESOLVED That the Internal Audit and Counter Fraud update report, to the 31 December 2024, be noted.
RESOLVED That the Business Risk Management update and the contents of the Corporate Risk Register be noted.
RESOLVED That the Outline Draft County Council Budget for 2025-26, the Outline Draft Medium Term Financial Plan for 2025-26 to 2028-29 and the Provisional Local Government Settlement for 2025-26 be noted. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Mr Martin Veale The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That Cabinet be advised of the Committee’s position in respect of the elements of the County Council Budget for 2025-26 and the Medium Term Financial Plan for 2025-26 to 2028-29 relating to the remit of the Committee, noting concerns which were raised in relation to the recent decision of Council to decrease the Second Homes Council Tax Premium and the negative impact it would have on Council Tax payers albeit recognising that other factors were taken into account. [Councillor Mike Stoddart abstained from voting.] Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Mr Martin Veale The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Committee concluded that it had no specific comments which required reporting back to Cabinet in relation to the alternative 2025-26 Budget Proposal submitted by the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group. [Councillor Mike Stoddart abstained from voting.]
RESOLVED That the revised Contract Procedure Rules be approved and the planned next steps towards implementation be noted.
RESOLVED That the updates in relation to the Annual Governance Statement 2023-24 be noted.
RESOLVED (a) That the process and timescale for compilation and approval of the Annual Governance Statement 2024-25 be approved. (b) That the timescale for the compilation and approval of the Statement of Accounts 2024-25 be noted.
RESOLVED (a) That the actions to address Audit Wales recommendations be noted. (b) That the progress on the updated Corporate Governance Improvement Plan be noted.
RESOLVED That the Audit Wales report into the Financial Sustainability of Local Government be noted.
RESOLVED That the Audit Wales local report ‘Financial Sustainability Review – Pembrokeshire County Council’ be noted.
RESOLVED That the Committee consider guidelines to govern the conduct of briefings with the Chair and Officers for the Governance and Audit Committee. Moved by Councillor Mike Stoddart; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison The vote, undertaken by way of a roll call, was carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Alan Dennison, Mike Stoddart, Jacob Williams and Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [5] Against the Motion: Dr Norma Barry [1] There were no abstentions. RESOLVED That a report be requested outlining the use and administration of grants. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the dates of Committee meetings, up until December 2025, be noted. (b) That the forward work programme for the remainder of the Municipal Year, as amended, be approved.
There were no apologies for absence received.
There were no requests received.
Councillor Aled Thomas declared a personal interest in Agenda Item No. 6 – Internal Audit and Counter Fraud Update 2024-25, by virtue of being a Local Authority Appointed Governor at Ysgol Caer Elen.
The Chair made reference to the discussion which took place as part of the Asset Management Strategy item regarding Brownfield Sites and advised that it had been included onto the long list for Internal Audit to consider for 2025-26, where an update would be provided on recommendations made. Moved by Dr Norma Barry; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Minutes of the Meeting held on 25 November 2024 be approved as a correct record, in both English and Welsh. Moved by Dr Norma Barry; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Minutes of the Extraordinary Meeting held on 10 December 2024 be approved as a correct record, in both English and Welsh.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That the updates in respect of actions arising from the 25 November 2024 meeting and associated appendices (update on Care Inspectorate Wales 2024 Inspection for Adults Services and the progress being made to address the recommendations contained within the Children’s Complex Care Packages Follow-Up Internal Audit review), be noted. (b) That the Head of Housing be invited to provide an informal briefing on how the Social Housing Grant was currently utilised, to include information in relation to purchasing from the open market in comparison to building new housing and how the housing waiting list operated. Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the updates in respect of actions arising from the 10 December 2024 meeting be noted.
The Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer introduced the item and highlighted that the action log appeared to be getting progressively larger each meeting. He emphasised the importance of distinguishing if a matter was deemed an ‘action’ which required an update or if it was just an improvement point for noting. Following a request made by the Chair prior to the meeting, it was agreed that target dates for completion of actions would be included in the log going forward. The Committee considered the follow-up actions from the 25 November 2024 meeting and raised the following points: · Mr John Evans made reference to the answer provided in response to the following action contained within the log ‘that the Committee receive a report outlining the legal situation in relation to Second Homes Tax Premium so due consideration can be given to the matter before any referral is made to the relevant Overview and Scrutiny Committee’ and stated that the response provided did not answer the question. The Head of Procurement and Revenue Services confirmed that the legislation had been considered but could be looked at again if required. Mr Evans stated that in his view the legislation did not seem to specify when the exemption had to be granted which meant that his suggestion to re-engineer the process of how exemptions are applied by moving to a rebate system could work. He added that changing the process would bring with it reduced processing costs for Officers, as the Officer input would only be required once the property had been sold, of which proof of the date the property was marketed and sold could be submitted via an online system for consideration and grant of rebate. Mr Evans stated that he was aware that it had to be proven that the property was being sold for a reasonable price, although added that if the property sold successfully, it would suggest that it must have been marketed for a reasonable price. In response, the Head of Procurement and Revenue Services expressed that he believed it was clear that the exemption could not be applied on a rebate system; however, agreed to clarify the matter further and report back as part of the action log (AP). · Clarification was sought by Mr John Evans as to how many exemptions extend past the 12 month allocated period, it was agreed that an update would be sought (AP). · Councillor Mike Stoddart made reference to the action in relation to ‘Audit Wales - Sustainable Development? Making Best Use of Brownfield Land and Empty Buildings’ and made a suggestion that the Council write to Welsh Government and request that the money allocated as part of the Social Housing Grant (SHG) be transferred to the Authority to enable new homes to be built to increase the housing supply. Councillor Stoddart highlighted that transferring the ownership of existing dwellings from the private sector to the public sector did not increase the number of properties available to tenants. In response, the Chief Executive suggested that before making a recommendation for the Executive to write to Welsh Government, that it may be beneficial for the Committee to invite the Head of Housing to provide an informal briefing on how the SHG was currently utilised, to include information in relation to purchasing from the open market in comparison to building new housing (AP). This suggestion was agreed and Councillor Stoddart requested that the briefing also include information in relation to how the housing waiting list operated. The Chair proceeded to welcome the Director of Social Services, Housing and Public Protection to the meeting to outline the two update reports appended to the action log (Appendix B and Appendix D). The Director of Social Services, Housing and Public Protection began by outlining the actions that had been undertaken in response to the Care Inspectorate Wales Inspection for Adults’ Services and stated that the service was continuing to work on the responses to the findings. The progress made in addressing the recommendations contained within the October 2024 Children’s Complex Care Packages Follow-Up Audit was then outlined and it was stated that processes had been strengthened and that the recommendations were on track to be implemented within the timescales agreed. Following the updates provided by the Director of Social Services, Housing and Public Protection the following questions were raised: · Mr John Evans made reference to the Social Services Improvement Board and queried if a scorecard was used to demonstrate the improvements being made. In response the Director of Social Services, Housing and Public Protection confirmed that there was an adult services scorecard, of which further information was provided. A request was made by Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale for a copy of a scorecard to be shared with the Committee (AP). · Following clarification sought by Mr John Evans as to who had oversight of the Social Services Improvement Board’s conclusions and outputs, the Director of Social Services, Housing and Public Protection stated that he Chaired the Board himself, and the membership was outlined. · Mr Martin Veale made reference to a 35% reduction in reviews and queried what the timeframe for reviews was. In response, the Director of Social Services, Housing and Public Protection advised that the Authority was required to review a package of care after the first six weeks of the care and support package being implemented, and then annually thereafter. He added that the backlog was in relation to annual reviews and not the initial six week review. · In response to a question raised by Mr Martin Veale, the Director of Social Services, Housing and Public Protection stated that as of December 2024 there were 772 overdue reviews, of which a specific timeframe for completion of the backlog could not be given as it was dependant on the future demand. It was however highlighted that the backlog was currently reducing which was pleasing. · Following a suggestion made by Mr Martin Veale for a target to be introduced to provide focus, e.g. reducing the backlog down to 5% or 10%, the Director of Social Services, Housing and Public Protection stated that in his view a target was not required as a commitment had been given by the service to an ongoing reduction within the review completion times, which had been made a clear priority for the service and which would be constantly monitored. · The Chair queried if the conversations undertaken with external agencies as part of the Adult Safeguarding ‘conversation first’ approach were recorded. In response the Director of Social Services, Housing and Public Protection provided further information on the approach and advised that there was an audit trail for each conversation. Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the updates in respect of actions arising from the 25 November 2024 meeting and associated appendices (update on Care Inspectorate Wales 2024 Inspection for Adults Services and the progress being made to address the recommendations contained within the Children’s Complex Care Packages Follow-Up Internal Audit review), be noted. (b) That the Head of Housing be invited to provide an informal briefing on how the Social Housing Grant was currently utilised, to include information in relation to purchasing from the open market in comparison to building new housing and how the housing waiting list operated. Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the updates in respect of actions arising from the 10 December 2024 meeting be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Internal Audit and Counter Fraud update report, to the 31 December 2024, be noted.
The Committee considered a report by the Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer in relation to the Internal Audit and Counter Fraud update for 2024-25. The Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer presented the report stating that matters were continuing to be drawn from the Strategic Internal Audit work plan which had been approved by the Committee in April 2024, and work was ongoing across all areas of the Council to enable the Head of Internal Audit opinion to be presented to the Committee in April 2025. The service was stated to be nearing capacity due to additional requests for work being received; however, assurance was given that whilst original time scales for some areas of work may slip, the Internal Audit work plan remained robust. It was noted that no limited assurance Internal Audit reviews had been received since the last Committee update, which was pleasing, and assurance was given that the recommendations continued to be monitored of which a further breakdown would be provided at the next Committee meeting. It was highlighted that Quarter 4 was a demanding time for the service as it had to fulfil its functions on the service level agreement obligations for both Swansea Bay City Deal and Partneriaeth as well as facilitating the Corporate Joint Committee. It was however noted, that whilst full cost recovery was in place for that work, it was undertaken by staff within the service and had to be made a priority. An update on the disbanding of Partneriaeth and introduction of a new collaboration agreement was provided, which outlined the impact the changes would have on the service. An update was also provided on the changes that would be required following issuing of the new Global Internal Audit Standards. The Chair made reference to two Internal Audit Reviews rated as ‘limited assurance’ within the report, in relation to Ysgol Caer Elen and County Farms. It was noted that an update on Ysgol Caer Elen would be provided at the next Committee meeting, and the Vice-Chair was requested to provide an update on the County Farms matter. In response, the Vice-Chair, as Chair of the County Farms Working Group, stated that the working group had met last week and considered the issues, particularly in relation to building maintenance. He stated that progress was being made and provided assurance that the matter would continue to be monitored by the working group. Councillor Alan Dennison made reference to the referrals of Purported Fraud or Irregularity noting that action was required by Revenue Services. He queried if there was a timescale to which Revenue Services had to deal with the matters, to which the Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer advised that once conclusions had been received by the Department for Work and Pensions, Revenue Services update the records promptly. Concerns were raised by Councillor Alan Dennison, after receiving the information that the Internal Audit service was nearing capacity, that three posts were being proposed to be cut as part of the budget saving proposals, within the Audit, Risk and Information team. The Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer stated that without going into detail, the proposed savings could be made and confirmed that the savings were part of the wider Audit, Risk and Information Service, and that no cuts were being proposed to the Internal Audit team. Mr Martin Veale highlighted the amount of work undertaken by the service and queried how the number of days spent on Internal Audit matters compared to previous years. In response the Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer stated that historically the service had tried to provide one thousand internal audit days per year; however, the planning process for next year was indicating that 800 days of Internal Audit assurance would be conducted due to the additional demands on his role. Mr Martin Veale highlighted a point raised by Mr John Evans which stated that the Authority needed to save money through improving processes and suggested that it would be beneficial to be provided with information as to how savings are generated by Internal Audit spotting weaknesses in systems and processes. Councillor Mike Stoddart queried if the valuation of the backlog of repairs on County Farm estates was known and if that was factored into the value of them. In response, the Vice-Chair stated that whilst he did not have the figures to hand he was happy to have a conversation with Councillor Stoddart following the meeting. Further information on County Farm estates was provided by the Vice-Chair which included how the legislation with regards to County Farm estates differ from that of standard Council Housing stock, the lack of retention of funds for repairs, and the possible fluctuations in agricultural tenancies. Councillor Alan Dennison queried if Council tenant farmers would be impacted by the UK Inheritance Tax rules, to which the Vice-Chair advised that whilst he would assume not, he did not know for sure and did not want to comment further as it was a matter he may also be affected by. Moved by Councillor Alan Dennison; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Internal Audit and Counter Fraud update report, to the 31 December 2024, be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Business Risk Management update and the contents of the Corporate Risk Register be noted.
The Committee considered a report by the Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer in relation to the Business Risk Management update for Quarter 3 2024-25. The Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer presented the report stating that the Corporate Risk Register remained a live document and advised that the Corporate Risk Management Group met on 9 January 2025 and updated the mitigating actions and controls which were currently in place along with requesting a number of risk profiles to be brought back, of which updates would be provided in when the Corporate Risk Register was next presented. It was noted that there had been no changes to the residual scores in place; however, other updates were made. The levels of overview of the business risk management were outlined and it was noted that continuous horizon scanning was undertaken for anything that required including. An update on the Business Risk Management System was provided with it being stated that good progress was being made, with further integration planned. It was noted that the Business Risk Management Strategy would be presented to the Committee in April 2025 and that Audit Wales would be undertaking an Audit of the Authority’s Business Risk Management arrangements which would be reported back to the Committee once concluded. The Chair highlighted that a number of the deadlines contained within the update were in the past, to which the Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer stated they would be updated. Mr Martin Veale highlighted that a lot of the risks outlined within the register would be the same risks being experienced by other Local Authorities and queried if the risks were shared with service providers and other Authorities to enable a wider solution to be found. In response the Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer confirmed that as part of horizon scanning exercises, the registers of other Authorities were viewed to identify common risks. He added that many of the common risks were National matters which would require policy change by Welsh Government. Confirmation was given that risks were frequently discussed during Chief Auditors’ Group meetings. Councillor Alan Dennison highlighted the escalation of School Delegated Budgets and Licensed Deficits and requested further information. The Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer clarified that the term ‘escalated’ meant the risk had been escalated from the Directorate register and had been placed within the register as per the score calculated by the scoring matrix. Following clarification sought by Councillor Mike Stoddart as to why the failing of the Housing Service to produce electrical test certificates was not on the register, the Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer advised that ‘Statutory Compliance within Council owned buildings’ currently sat within the Directorate register for Social Care and Housing. He added that during the last Corporate Risk Management Group meeting, it was requested that a wider risk be considered on the matter, which would fall under the umbrella of Asset Management and would form part of the Committee’s agenda for April. A suggestion was made by Mr Martin Veale for the risk register to include clear identification of which Overview and Scrutiny Committee each risk would fall under, which was a suggestion the Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer agreed to take on board and include for future (AP). Mr John Evans made reference to the removal of ‘Acceleration of the improvement programme’ opportunity from the risk register in April 2024 and queried whether an exercise was undertaken to establish the value and benefit the programme delivered and, if so, what the process was. The Chief Executive did not have the details in front of him so agreed to find out the details and report back (AP). Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Mr Martin Veale The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Business Risk Management update and the contents of the Corporate Risk Register be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Outline Draft County Council Budget for 2025-26, the Outline Draft Medium Term Financial Plan for 2025-26 to 2028-29 and the Provisional Local Government Settlement for 2025-26 be noted. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Mr Martin Veale The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That Cabinet be advised of the Committee’s position in respect of the elements of the County Council Budget for 2025-26 and the Medium Term Financial Plan for 2025-26 to 2028-29 relating to the remit of the Committee, noting concerns which were raised in relation to the recent decision of Council to decrease the Second Homes Council Tax Premium and the negative impact it would have on Council Tax payers albeit recognising that other factors were taken into account. [Councillor Mike Stoddart abstained from voting.] Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Mr Martin Veale The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Committee concluded that it had no specific comments which required reporting back to Cabinet in relation to the alternative 2025-26 Budget Proposal submitted by the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group. [Councillor Mike Stoddart abstained from voting.]
The Committee considered a report by the Director of Resources in relation to the Outline Draft County Council Budget for 2025-26, Outline Draft Medium Term Financial Plan for 2025-26 to 2028-29, the Provisional Local Government Settlement for 2025-26 and an alternative 2025-26 Budget Proposal from the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group. The Director of Resources began by providing some context stating that the quarter three update report could not be completed in time to be included for this meeting so would be presented to the Committee in April; however, stated that it concluded with a projected overspend of £2.1 million, which was a better position than what was being predicted at the end of quarter two (£3.9 million). It was stated that the main budgetary pressures continued to be within Social Care due to the increasing demand and complexity of care, which was predicted to overspend by £10m. It was highlighted that the moratorium on non-essential expenditure and recruitment for 2024 -25 would continue until the year-end. Turning to the 2025 -26 budget plan, it was stated that since publication of the December Council report, the projected funding gap had reduced due to the provisional settlement from Welsh Government being more favourable than expected and changes made to the Council Tax Premium for long-term empty properties along with the finalisation of the estimates and assumptions made during the early part of the budget planning. It was highlighted that the projected funding gap currently sat at £27.4 million which would need to be bridged by a combination of the use of Council Tax Premiums, budget savings or use of reserves. It was noted that the use of reserves was not prudent financial management, would not support financial sustainability in the longer term and would add to the projected funding gap for 2026-27 unless a clear plan to replenish any utilisation of reserves was agreed. In summing up, the Director stated that the challenges being faced were long term challenges which would span the Medium Term Financial Plan and potentially beyond. Members were advised that decisions in relation to the budget and Council Tax levels would need to be considered taking into consideration the long term effect the decisions would have on the financial sustainability of the Council and its ability to continue to provide its statutory and discretionary services. Mr John Evans raised concerns in relation to the recent decision of Council to decrease the Second Homes Council Tax Premium and the negative impact it would have on Council Tax payers who would be subject to a Council Tax increase to compensate for the decrease in the premium. In response, the Vice-Chair outlined a range of factors which contributed to Council’s decision to decrease the premium, after only one year of it being implemented at that level, which included, the negative impact policy change from Welsh Government in relation to the 182 days legalisation has caused on business who were then subject to paying the Second Homes Council Tax Premium, the failure of the Authority to implement the money generated from the premium to build new homes, of which none were built, a significant increase in Council Tax exemptions and the likely damage that would be caused to the tourism industry. Councillor Mike Stoddart made reference to the calculation of a ‘cumulative funding gap’ and expressed that it was his opinion that a funding gap could not be demonstrated as ‘cumulative’. He stated that he had raised the same point at another Committee meeting and was given assurance that the reference would be removed. In response, the Director of Resources confirmed that the wording would be changed for the reports being submitted to Cabinet and Council; however, the report being considered today was the standard report submitted to all Overview and Scrutiny Committees. A request was made by Councillor Mike Stoddart to receive information as to how grants feed into the analysis of the budget, particularly in relation to money received late in the day to administer grants, when the costs to administer them, by staff, would have already been allocated as part of the budget. In response, the Director or Resources stated that elements of grant funding received to administer grants was held separately in the budget. It was stated that the Authority had staff which were base budget funded and others who were grant funded. The Vice-Chair made reference to the moratorium on non-essential expenditure and queried why the Authority would be spending money on anything that was not essential during times when a moratorium was not in place. In response, the Director outlined undertakings which would be deemed as ‘non-essential’ which may be undertaken during times that a moratorium was not in place, which included non-professional training and events. The Director confirmed that the moratoriums had proven to be effective in pulling back overspends and had also in recent times included delaying essential spend matters to assist further. Councillor Alan Dennison made reference to the budget modeller and highlighted that whilst it may be difficult in some service areas to split duties into statutory and discretionary, it was his opinion that the Authority should bring services back to statutory services only, where possible. The Vice-Chair raised concerns in relation to the impact the increase in employers’ National Insurance would have on the budget, particularly if the element which was being predicted to be fully funded does not come to fruition. The Director of Resources advised that assurance had been received that funding would be provided for the majority of the directly employed element of the increase; however, the Housing Revenue Account and Commissioned Services elements were still unclear, of which a pressure in relation to those matters would be included in the 2025-26 budget. It was stated that if the funded element did not transpire, then the non-funded elements would have to be funded by reserves in 2025-26 which would then become an additional pressure for 2026-27. In response to a question raised by the Vice-Chair querying what the current spend on the Education Directorate was in comparison to the forecasted spend for the next financial year, the Director or Resources outlined how the figures would sit depending on which option Council resolve. The Chair then welcomed any questions in relation to the alternative budget proposal from the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group, of which the following points were raised: The Vice-Chair made reference to the proposal to make cuts no more than 2% to schools’ budget and queried how the additional funding gap would be bridged in doing so. The Director of Resources stated that it was his understanding that the measure for schools would be removed, so the 2% would become the highest level of budget savings for schools, and then all other budget savings would drop down. An example of how the proposed budget savings would look was demonstrated on screen by the Finance Manager. In summing up the Chair requested that to enable Lay Members to fully understand all elements of the budget and calculations of budget proposals, that in future years they be invited to attend any budget seminars which are held (AP). Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Outline Draft County Council Budget for 2025-26, the Outline Draft Medium Term Financial Plan for 2025-26 to 2028-29 and the Provisional Local Government Settlement for 2025-26 be noted. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Mr Martin Veale The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That Cabinet be advised of the Committee’s position in respect of the elements of the County Council Budget for 2025-26 and the Medium Term Financial Plan for 2025-26 to 2028-29 relating to the remit of the Committee, noting concerns which were raised in relation to the recent decision of Council to decrease the Second Homes Council Tax Premium and the negative impact it would have on Council Tax payers albeit recognising that other factors were taken into account. [Councillor Mike Stoddart abstained from voting.] Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Mr Martin Veale The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Committee concluded that it had no specific comments which required reporting back to Cabinet in relation to the alternative 2025-26 Budget Proposal submitted by the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group. [Councillor Mike Stoddart abstained from voting.]
The meeting was paused at 12:40pm for a break and resumed at 13:00pm.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the revised Contract Procedure Rules be approved and the planned next steps towards implementation be noted.
The Committee considered a report by the Head of Procurement and Revenue Services detailing the Council’s Revised Contract Procedure Rules (CPR) which had been circulated as a supplementary document to the agenda. The Chair welcomed the Head of Procurement and Revenue Services to the meeting to present the report and stated that the Category Manager, the Principal Procurement Officer and Legal representatives were also in attendance to assist with questions. The Head of Procurement and Revenue Services outlined the report stating that the review and subsequent amendments was to ensure compliance with the new Procurement Act which will come into force on 24 February 2025. The process of the review was outlined and the key areas were highlighted, which included, changes to thresholds and the introduction of a clause in relation to the appropriatness of liquidated damages being included in contracts. The next steps were outlined which included seeking Council approval, providing Officer training on the changes, a seminar for Elected Members and communicating information to suppliers. Mr John Evans raised concerns in relation to situations which had arisen where Officers had approved procurement matters in excess of their designated threshold and queried how those situations would be avoided in future. In response, the Head of Procurement and Revenue Services advised that further work was being undertaken in relation to schemes of delegation along with a safety-net check by the Procurement Team. In response to a question raised by the Vice-Chair as to whether insurance procurement fell within CPR, the Head of Procurement and Revenue Services confirmed that the use of an insurance broker would be covered under the CPR. Mr Martin Veale queried if the CPR for Pembrokeshire varied from that of other Welsh Authorities, to which the Head of Procurement and Revenue Services stated that variations would be seen with regards to thresholds and schemes of delegation; however, the WLGA hosted a procurement network which enabled conversations to be had and comparisons to be made. Following a question raised by Mr Martin Veale, the Head of Procurement and Revenue Services outlined how the Council’s thresholds differed to others. Councillor Alan Dennison queried if it would be possible for contracts to be artificially divided to meet a lower delegation threshold, to which the Head of Procurement and Revenue Services advised that thorough checks were undertaken by the Procurement Team and advice given to service areas on such matters to ensure that situation did not happen. In response to a question raised by Councillor Maureen Bowen, the Director of Resources advised that the Council was not a registered ‘Living Wage’ employer; however, in a lot of the Authority’s social care commissioned staff, the real living wage was applied. Moved by Councillor Aled Thomas; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a roll call, was carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Maureen Bowen, Alan Dennison, Mike Stoddart, Aled Thomas, Jacob Williams and Dr Norma Barry, Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [8] There were no votes against the motion or any abstentions. RESOLVED That the revised Contract Procedure Rules be approved and the planned next steps towards implementation be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the updates in relation to the Annual Governance Statement 2023-24 be noted.
The Committee considered a report by the Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer in relation to the Annual Governance Statement 2023-24 progress update. The Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer presented the report stating that following the Committee reviewing the statement in October 2024, it was then presented to Council for final approval. It was stated that the Annual Governance Statement contained five significant issues and four priorities for improvement. It was added that work was still ongoing to address those areas and it had been pleasing to note the progress already made. Councillor Alan Dennison made reference to the action in relation to the West Lodge facility and queried why it was being marked as complete when there was still a vacancy within the facility. The Chair advised that the action had only been in relation to the opening of the facility, not in respect of the capacity levels. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the updates in relation to the Annual Governance Statement 2023-24 be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That the process and timescale for compilation and approval of the Annual Governance Statement 2024-25 be approved. (b) That the timescale for the compilation and approval of the Statement of Accounts 2024-25 be noted.
The Committee considered a report by the Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer in relation to the process and timescale for compilation and approval of the Annual Governance Statement for 2024-25 and Statement of Accounts for 2024-25. The Chief Audit, Risk and Information Officer presented the report outlining the process and agreed timescales and advised that a training session would be delivered on the ‘Good Governance Guide’ to enable Members to feed into the Annual Governance Statement. Mr Martin Veale made reference to the timescales proposed in relation to the draft accounts and queried if they were achievable. In response, the Director of Resources confirmed that work was ongoing with Audit Wales and the Council planned to meet the deadlines as outlined. Mr John Evans highlighted the changes that had been made in relation to the communication flow and the consideration of documents by Audit Wales and queried if the Director of Resources was content with the updated process or if additional improvement would be required to meet the proposed deadlines. In response, the Director of Resources stated that improvements had been made, of which further details were given, although recognised that further improvements could be made, and advised that conversations were ongoing to achieve those. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Councillor Aled Thomas The vote, undertaken by way of a roll call, was carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Maureen Bowen, Alan Dennison, Mike Stoddart, Aled Thomas, Jacob Williams and Dr Norma Barry, Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [8] There were no votes against the motion or any abstentions. RESOLVED (a) That the process and timescale for compilation and approval of the Annual Governance Statement 2024-25 be approved. (b) That the timescale for the compilation and approval of the Statement of Accounts 2024-25 be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That the actions to address Audit Wales recommendations be noted. (b) That the progress on the updated Corporate Governance Improvement Plan be noted.
The Committee considered a joint report by the Assistant Chief Executive and the Head of Law and Governance in relation to the Corporate Governance Improvement Plan for 2022-24 and the response to Audit Wales Stage Two follow-up report. The Corporate Planning Manager outlined the report and stated that the actions being proposed were in draft form and views from the Committee was welcome on any proposed changes it sees fit for the actions. The Chair welcomed Alison Lewis and Euros Lake from Audit Wales to the meeting and sought any comment they may wish to make on the Stage Two follow-up report. Ms Lewis outlined the initial purpose of the Stage One report and stated that it had been pleasing to see action being taken on all of the recommendations, she did, however, highlight that it was not clear how the Authority was assuring itself that the actions being taken were sustainable and would achieve the intended impacts. It was noted that no additional recommendations were being proposed, and it was not the intention of Audit Wales to do any further follow-up work on the matter; however, it would continue to be monitored as part of ongoing assurance and risk assessment work. Ms Lewis outlined the findings of the Stage Two report and welcomed questions from Members. Mr John Evans commented that whilst some of the actions were still ongoing, it was clear that improvements were being made and he expressed that it would be his view that the training required in relation to the Contract Procedure Rules should be deemed as essential and excluded from the moratorium on spend. Mr Martin Veale made reference to the ongoing work in relation to termination payments for Chief Officers, and noted that the work would be concluded by March 2025 but queried why interim arrangements had not been put in place to cover the time-period up to March 2025. In response, the Head of Law and Governance confirmed that guidance on Chief Officers’ arrangements had been in place for some time after being led by the Chief Executive and considered by the Senior Leadership Team and the Senior Staff Committee; however, stated that it had not been fully embedded in the Pay Policy Statement, as an appendix, until now and would be presented to Council in March. In response to a question raised by Mr Martin Veale, the Head of Law and Governance advised that one Senior Officer had departed the Authority since July 2023 and confirmed that the guidance was adhered to. In relation to the Corporate Governance Improvement Plan, the Chair raised concerns with a comment which stated ‘that the staff survey was not critical to addressing Audit Wales’s recommendations’. It was stated to be disappointing that the staff survey had been delayed for another year and it was felt that the survey would assist in leading improvements within organisational culture. Further concerns were raised by the Chair in relation to the delays outlined in relation to the Communication and Management Strategy as she did not feel a staff survey was critical in progressing the strategy as a whole. Concerns were also raised by the Chair in relation to the lack of a deadline date for the Community Strategy and also the vagueness of when the Employee Engagement Strategy was implemented. Comment was made by the Chair on the importance of Management training covering a wider remit than just financial matters, stating that it would be beneficial to cover performance management, planning of services and value for money. Disappointment was expressed by the Chair in relation to the delays of the review of the Council's internal recharging arrangements and assurance was sought that the review would be completed by April 2025. Moved by Councillor Alan Dennison; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the actions to address Audit Wales recommendations be noted. (b) That the progress on the updated Corporate Governance Improvement Plan be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Audit Wales report into the Financial Sustainability of Local Government be noted.
The Committee considered an Audit Wales report in relation to the Financial Sustainability of Local Government. Alison Lewis from Audit Wales outlined the report stating that it was a National summary of Audit Wales’ financial sustainability work, which was the third report in a series of their National financial sustainability reports for Councils. It was stated that based on feedback received, this version looked more at the current arrangements rather than past performance. Members were directed to the Audit Wales website for summaries of other Council reports and to access the data tool. The key messages of the report were highlighted with it being stated that the financial position of Local Government was unsustainable over the medium term unless action was taken. The views of the Auditor General were outlined, and it was recognised that the sector was facing unprecedented challenges and, in general, the spending by Councils had decreased, of which a range of contributing factors were outlined. The conclusions of the report were highlighted along with some potential impeding issues which could arise Nationally. Mr Martin Veale recognised that as part of local reports Audit Wales make recommendations and queried why recommendations were not being made to Welsh Government as part of National reports. In response, Alison Lewis advised that the report had been created under the powers for auditing of Local Government, to provide greater context of the National picture and was not a report done for the Government which is why recommendations were not included. Mr Martin Veale made reference to the increased level of funds being assigned to reserves and queried if Audit Wales had recognised any patterns of Authorities increasing reserves back to pre-pandemic levels. In response, Alison Lewis stated that she had no further information on reserve positions of Local Authorities. The Chair recognised the extremely challenging circumstances which were being faced by Local Authorities in relation to the financial situation and stated that it was the role of the Welsh Local Government Association (WLGA) to raise such issues with Welsh Government. It was queried if the Director of Resources, and his counterparts, were planning to bring the content of the report to the attention of the Government through representatives at the WLGA. In response, the Director of Resources advised that the Society of Welsh Treasurers (SWT), of which he was Chair, was involved in the preparation of the report and confirmed that SWT do meet with Welsh Government and the WLGA to discuss the matters contained within the report on a very regular basis. Mr John Evans queried if the work undertaken by Audit Wales had identified any areas that could be streamlined in duplication of work undertaken by the Authorities to reduce costs. Alison Lewis responded to advise that Audit Wales did not get involved in policy decisions of Councils or how they choose to collaborate in the discharge of functions and added that such discussion would likely be undertaken through the WLGA. Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Audit Wales report into the Financial Sustainability of Local Government be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Audit Wales local report ‘Financial Sustainability Review – Pembrokeshire County Council’ be noted.
The Committee considered an Audit Wales local report in relation to a Financial Sustainability Review of Pembrokeshire County Council. Alison Lewis from Audit Wales outlined the report stating that it was this local report which went forward, along with the other 21 Local Authorities, to collate the national summary report previously considered. Ms Lewis outlined what had been looked at as part of the report and advised that the audit was limited to a consideration of the arrangements that the Council had put in place to support its financial sustainability and was not a review of the Council's wider financial management or individual financial decisions. It was stated that the exercise sought to establish whether the Council had proper arrangements to support its financial sustainability, of which it was concluded that it did in the short term, but lacked a longer term plan to close its identified funding gap, which was a universal finding across Local Authorities. The specifics of the findings were outlined, and it was highlighted that one recommendation had been issued in relation to the need to improve the Council’s longer term planning and clearly set out how it intends to close its funding gap to support its future financial sustainability. In summing up, Ms Lewis commented that it had been pleasing to receive such a positive response from the Authority following the report and subsequent recommendation. The Director of Resources stated that whilst the Authority had identified what the fundings gaps would be for 2026-27 onwards, it was not yet known how they would be bridged. A range of steps were outlined which the Authority would take to address the recommendation from Audit Wales which included the use of the Vanguard methodology across all services, ongoing workforce transformation, organisational re-structure work and a temporary recruitment freeze on a range of posts. It was added that the voluntary severance scheme and voluntary early retirement scheme had been re-opened and internal displacement was being managed as part of the switch programme, where possible. It was stated that planning was ongoing particularly in regards to investment in the prevention agenda, which would be a key component in making sure that the medium-term financial plan identified how the Authority can deliver on bridging the funding gap in future years. A range of other projects were outlined which would bring with them a range of opportunities for the Authority along with the benefit of retained Non-Domestic Rates (NDR)for Pembrokeshire (Freeport) and it was recognised that additional support needed to be provided for schools, wider than just the financial context of support. It was stated that the work outlined was hoped to be concluded by August 2025 which would provide the Authority with a medium-term financial plan which identifies the financial challenge, but also how the funding gap would be bridged. It was hoped that there would be a UK Government three-year spending review in the Spring which would allow the Authority to gauge what would be coming via the Barnett formula to Welsh Government, along with other matters. In response to clarification sought by Mr Martin Veale in relation to the current position of reserves, the Director of Resources advised that some service area reserves had rolled back to pre-pandemic levels and whilst it was area dependant, as a whole, reserves were reducing, of which further information was provided but it was added that balances were currently deemed adequate. Following a question raised by the Chair as to what an ideal level of reserves would be, the Director of Resources advised that it was difficult to give a specific figure as each Authority utilises reserves differently. [Councillor Maureen Bowen left the meeting at this juncture.] In response to clarification sought by the Vice-Chair as to how much the collation of such reports cost the Authority, Alison Lewis advised that the production of the report was not a request, nor a choice, by the Authority and formed part of Audit Wales’s audit function as outlined within law and was undertaken in line with the agreed programme of work and fee scheme. Further information was provided as to how a risk based approach was used to determine pieces of work to undertake and how those work streams were funded. Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Audit Wales local report ‘Financial Sustainability Review – Pembrokeshire County Council’ be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Committee consider guidelines to govern the conduct of briefings with the Chair and Officers for the Governance and Audit Committee. Moved by Councillor Mike Stoddart; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison The vote, undertaken by way of a roll call, was carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Alan Dennison, Mike Stoddart, Jacob Williams and Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [5] Against the Motion: Dr Norma Barry [1] There were no abstentions. RESOLVED That a report be requested outlining the use and administration of grants. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the dates of Committee meetings, up until December 2025, be noted. (b) That the forward work programme for the remainder of the Municipal Year, as amended, be approved.
The Committee considered the Forward Work Programme and tentative training programme up until December 2025. The Chair reiterated the request for the planned training session to include information on the budgetary process. It was stated by the Chair that the progress in relation to the Public Interest Report recommendations would be covered in the forthcoming financial year and that implementation of the new procurement rules would be audited in 2026-27. A request was made by Councillor Mike Stoddart for the Committee to receive a report outlining the use and administration of grants to provide knowledge on how the system works. Concerns were raised by Councillor Mike Stoddart in relation to advice provided by Officers, to Chairs of Committees during pre-meetings and a request was made for the Committee to collate a guideline document outlining how Chair’s pre-briefings should be conducted. [Councillor Aled Thomas left the meeting at this juncture.] Discussion was held in relation to Councillor Stoddart’s requests of which varying views and suggestions as to how to take the suggestions forward were noted. Moved by Councillor Mike Stoddart; Seconded by Councillor Jacob Williams The vote, undertaken by way of a roll call, was carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Mike Stoddart, Jacob Williams and Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [4] Against the Motion: Councillors Alan Dennison and Dr Norma Barry [2] There were no abstentions. RESOLVED That the Committee consider guidelines to govern the conduct of briefings with the Chair and Officers for the Governance and Audit Committee. Moved by Councillor Mike Stoddart; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison The vote, undertaken by way of a roll call, was carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Alan Dennison, Mike Stoddart, Jacob Williams and Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [5] Against the Motion: Dr Norma Barry [1] There were no abstentions. RESOLVED That a report be requested outlining the use and administration of grants. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the dates of Committee meetings, up until December 2025, be noted. (b) That the forward work programme for the remainder of the Municipal Year, as amended, be approved.
The Chair reminded Members that towards the end of 2024 a resignation had been received from Mr Martin Veale, who would be stepping down from the Committee in March 2025, after eight years service, meaning that this meeting had been Mr Veale’s last meeting. On behalf of the Committee, the Chair reiterated thanks to Mr Veale for his valuable contributions to the Committee and wished him well for the future. Mr Veale conveyed his thanks to all Members of the Committee and Officers who he had worked alongside, both past and present.
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