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The decisions as the council's minutes record them. A plain-language summary follows once it has been written.
RESOLVED (a) That the conclusions of the Pembroke Dock Commercial Property Grant Scheme Working Group and of Council in respect of the potential for prosecution be noted. (b) That Internal Audit be recommended to consider the issues raised and the recommendations of previous reports on the matter and conducts a review into the effectiveness of internal controls in respect of the administration of current similar grant schemes. Recommendations made by the now-defunct Audit Committee in 2019, referred to in recommendation (b) of this Committee’s report, were considered no longer appropriate and were withdrawn and not voted on. In closing the meeting, the Chair remarked that following an earlier private seminar and the meeting that afternoon, from data the Committee had seen, it appeared that Counsel’s advice was unequivocal. He declared the efforts of Councillors Stoddart and Williams over the years to pursue justice, sometimes in the face of personal criticism and substantial opposition, had been entirely vindicated and they should be recognised for their determination and fortitude. The Chair added he was grateful to both Members for their hard work, resilience and relentless pursuit of the truth and expressed his thanks to them both.
Apologies for absence were received from William Bramble, Chief Executive.
There were no declarations made at this point in the meeting.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That the conclusions of the Pembroke Dock Commercial Property Grant Scheme Working Group and of Council in respect of the potential for prosecution be noted. (b) That Internal Audit be recommended to consider the issues raised and the recommendations of previous reports on the matter and conducts a review into the effectiveness of internal controls in respect of the administration of current similar grant schemes. Recommendations made by the now-defunct Audit Committee in 2019, referred to in recommendation (b) of this Committee’s report, were considered no longer appropriate and were withdrawn and not voted on. In closing the meeting, the Chair remarked that following an earlier private seminar and the meeting that afternoon, from data the Committee had seen, it appeared that Counsel’s advice was unequivocal. He declared the efforts of Councillors Stoddart and Williams over the years to pursue justice, sometimes in the face of personal criticism and substantial opposition, had been entirely vindicated and they should be recognised for their determination and fortitude. The Chair added he was grateful to both Members for their hard work, resilience and relentless pursuit of the truth and expressed his thanks to them both.
[During consideration of this item, Councillor Aled Thomas and Mr Martin Veale declared a personal interest by virtue of them being serving magistrates.] In welcoming everyone to the meeting, the Chair explained that consideration of Agenda Item No. 14 the Commercial Property Grant Scheme in Pembroke and Pembroke Dock, and the resolutions referred to the Committee by Full Council on 7 March 2024, was adjourned at the Committee’s last meeting on 18 April 2024 to this Extraordinary meeting. The Head of Law and Governance introduced her report and the conclusions of the Pembroke Dock Commercial Property Grant Scheme (CPGS) Working Group, with the addition of a further recommendation at (d), which were approved by Full Council as follows: (a) With regard to the alleged fraud in the Pembroke and Pembroke Dock Commercial Property Grant Scheme (CPGS) that this Authority does not pursue a private prosecution at this time. (b) That all copies of agenda reports for, and Minutes of, meetings of the CPGS Working Group, as well as its correspondence with Counsel shall be made available to the Governance and Audit Committee to assist it in its investigation into this issue which has currently been paused. (c) That all copies of witness statements and other documents provided to Counsel by Dyfed-Powys Police, and all other documents obtained as part of the CPGS private prosecution working group process, be retained by Pembrokeshire County Council until such time as its Governance and Audit Committee's investigation is concluded. (d) That the Chief Executive be instructed to write to the Home Secretary, His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary, the Independent Police Complaints Commission and the Crown Prosecution Service, to bring their attention to the matter and enclosing the report of the Head of Law and Governance and the appendices relating thereto. The Head of Law and Governance confirmed this was done on 8 April 2024. It was reported that senior managers responsible for overseeing the CPGS had either retired or left the Council, as had many of those involved at an operational level, therefore, the Head of Law and Governance advised any further work would be reliant on any remaining officers with a knowledge of the scheme or the subsequent investigations or reviews into it. She then set out her report’s recommendations as listed below: (a) That the conclusions of the Pembroke Dock Commercial Property Grant Scheme Working Group and of the Council in respect of the potential for prosecution be noted. (b) That the recommendations of the Audit Committee in 2019 be noted. (c) That internal audit considers the issues raised and the recommendations of previous reports on the matter and conducts a review into the effectiveness of internal controls in respect of the administration of current similar grant schemes. In opening up the meeting for Members’ questions, the Chair stated that the Committee had earlier that same day discussed the papers that had been prepared and reviewed historical information to bring it up-to-date with the actions and tasks that were undertaken some 10 years ago. Councillor Michael Stoddart indicated he was not happy with the recommendations in the Committee report and suggested a list of witnesses be drawn up to attend before it to clear up any anomalies. He Moved that Mr Lee Reynolds in his capacity as the Council’s legal adviser be invited to attend a subsequent meeting of the Committee to assist in clarifying the discrepancy between his view of the evidence in this matter and that of the Crown Prosecution Service. The motion was Seconded by Councillor Jacob Williams who put forward that the Committee exercise its power to require and/or invite witnesses to attend before it under Section 83 (paragraph 4(a) or 4(b)) of the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011. The votes, undertaken by way of a roll call, were carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Steve Alderman, Michael James, Michael Stoddart, Aled Thomas, Jacob Williams, Guy Woodham; Dr Norma Barry, Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [9] There were no votes against or abstentions. DECISION (d) That Mr Lee Reynolds in his capacity as the Council’s legal adviser be invited under Section 83 (4) (b) of the above legislation to attend a subsequent meeting of the Committee to assist in clarifying the discrepancy between his view of the evidence in this matter and that of the Crown Prosecution Service. Councillor Stoddart then Moved that Councillor Jamie Adams be required under Section 83 (4) (a) of the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011 to attend a subsequent Committee meeting to explain his remarks made during the Full Council meeting of 12 December 2014 regarding the inspection of the roof space of Coronation School, Meyrick Street, Pembroke Dock. The recommendation was Seconded by Councillor Williams. The votes, undertaken by way of a roll call, were carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Steve Alderman, Michael James, Michael Stoddart, Aled Thomas, Jacob Williams, Guy Woodham; Dr Norma Barry, Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [9] There were no votes against or abstentions. DECISION (e) That Councillor Jamie Adams be required under the above legislation to attend a subsequent Committee meeting to explain his remarks made during the Full Council meeting of 12 December 2014 regarding the inspection of the roof space of Coronation School, Meyrick Street, Pembroke Dock. Next, Councillor Williams Moved that Mr Gwyn Evans, External Funding Manager, be required under Section 83 (4) (a) of the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011 to attend a subsequent Committee meeting to explain the defrayment of funds and the apportionment of grant awards. The motion was Seconded by Councillor Stoddart. The votes, undertaken by way of a roll call, were carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Steve Alderman, Michael James, Michael Stoddart, Aled Thomas, Jacob Williams, Guy Woodham; Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [8] Abstain: Dr Norma Barry [1] There were no votes against. DECISION (f) That Mr Gwyn Evans, External Funding Manager, be required under the above legislation to attend a subsequent Committee meeting to explain the defrayment of funds and the apportionment of grant awards. A further proposal was Moved by Councillor Stoddart that Mr Steve Owens in his former capacity as the Council’s Quantity Surveyor, be invited under Section 83 (4) (b) of the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011 to attend a subsequent Committee meeting to explain his report that some of the expenditure on electricity at 29 Dimond Street, Pembroke Dock, was ineligible under the grant arrangement. The recommendation was Seconded by Councillor Aled Thomas. The votes, undertaken by way of a roll call, were carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Steve Alderman, Michael James, Michael Stoddart, Aled Thomas, Jacob Williams, Guy Woodham; Dr Norma Barry, Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [9] There were no votes against or abstentions. DECISION (g) That Mr Steve Owens in his former capacity as the Council’s Quantity Surveyor, be invited under the above legislation to attend a subsequent Committee meeting to explain his report that some of the expenditure on electricity at 29 Dimond Street, Pembroke Dock, was ineligible under the grant arrangement. Councillor Williams then Moved that Mr David Davies in his former capacity as the Council’s Case Officer, be invited under Section 83 (4) (b) of the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011 to attend a subsequent Committee meeting to answer questions; Seconded by Councillor Stoddart. The votes, undertaken by way of a roll call, were carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Steve Alderman, Michael James, Michael Stoddart, Aled Thomas, Jacob Williams, Guy Woodham; Dr Norma Barry, Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [9] There were no votes against or abstentions. DECISION (h) That Mr David Davies in his former capacity as the Council’s Case Officer, be invited under the above legislation to attend a subsequent Committee meeting to answer questions. A motion that Mr Jonathan Haswell, Director of Resources, be required under Section 83 (4) (a) of the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011 to attend a subsequent Committee meeting to answer questions was Moved by Councillor Stoddart; Seconded by Councillor Williams. The votes, undertaken by way of a roll call, were carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Steve Alderman, Michael James, Michael Stoddart, Aled Thomas, Jacob Williams, Guy Woodham; Dr Norma Barry, Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [9] There were no votes against or abstentions. DECISION (i) That Mr Jonathan Haswell, Director of Resources, be required under the above legislation to attend a subsequent Committee meeting to answer questions. Councillor Stoddart then Moved that the contents of a dossier on the matter and passed to Dyfed-Powys Police be shared in electronic form with all Committee Members; Seconded by Mr Martin Veale. The votes, undertaken by way of a roll call, were carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Steve Alderman, Michael James, Michael Stoddart, Aled Thomas, Jacob Williams, Guy Woodham; Dr Norma Barry, Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [9] There were no votes against or abstentions. DECISION (j) That the contents of a dossier on the matter and passed to Dyfed-Powys Police be shared in electronic form with all Committee Members. [Councillor Aled Thomas left the meeting at this juncture] In addition to the decisions set out above, Councillor Steve Alderman Moved recommendations (a) and (c) contained within the Committee report; Seconded by Councillor Williams. The votes, undertaken by way of a roll call, were carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Steve Alderman, Michael James, Michael Stoddart, Jacob Williams, Guy Woodham; Dr Norma Barry, Mr John Evans and Mr Martin Veale [8] There were no votes against or abstentions. RESOLVED (a) That the conclusions of the Pembroke Dock Commercial Property Grant Scheme Working Group and of Council in respect of the potential for prosecution be noted. (b) That Internal Audit be recommended to consider the issues raised and the recommendations of previous reports on the matter and conducts a review into the effectiveness of internal controls in respect of the administration of current similar grant schemes. Recommendations made by the now-defunct Audit Committee in 2019, referred to in recommendation (b) of this Committee’s report, were considered no longer appropriate and were withdrawn and not voted on. In closing the meeting, the Chair remarked that following an earlier private seminar and the meeting that afternoon, from data the Committee had seen, it appeared that Counsel’s advice was unequivocal. He declared the efforts of Councillors Stoddart and Williams over the years to pursue justice, sometimes in the face of personal criticism and substantial opposition, had been entirely vindicated and they should be recognised for their determination and fortitude. The Chair added he was grateful to both Members for their hard work, resilience and relentless pursuit of the truth and expressed his thanks to them both.
Councillors must say when they have a personal link to something being discussed, such as a job, a property or a family member. A prejudicial interest is one strong enough that the councillor usually leaves the room and takes no part.
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