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The decisions as the council's minutes record them. A plain-language summary follows once it has been written.
RESOLVED (a) That the updates in respect of actions arising from the last meeting be noted. (b) That further clarification be sought in relation to Action 6 – Penalty Clauses (Asset Management Work) with regards to what further action the Authority could take if there was a clear breach of the terms.
RESOLVED (a) That the Governance and Audit Committee Terms of Reference be noted. (b) That clarification be provided by the Head of Law and Governance as to how the political balance of the Governance and Audit Committee was determined. [Councillor Jacob Williams requested that his vote against the motion be noted.]
RESOLVED That the Audit Wales Work Programme and Timetable for Quarter 2 be noted.
RESOLVED (a) That the findings of the Audit Wales report: ‘Sustainable development? – making best use of brownfield land and empty buildings’ be noted. (b) That a detailed update report be added to the Committee’s Forward Work Programme outlining the progress of the recommendations. (c) That the matter be added to the Internal Audit Programme for 2025-26.
RESOLVED That the Audit Wales report into the National Fraud Initiative in Wales 2022-23, be noted.
RESOLVED That the proposed response to Audit Wales be noted and it was determined that no amendments were required.
RESOLVED That the Internal Audit and Counter Fraud update report to the 31 October 2024 be noted. Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Councillor Mike James The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the Internal Audit and Counter Fraud update report to the 31 October 2024 be noted. (b) That the revised Counter Fraud, Corruption and Bribery Policy Statement and Strategy, the Anti-Money Laundering Policy and the Know Your Customer and Due Diligence Procedure, be approved, with the inclusion of ‘Community Interest Companies’ within the Business Verification entity list.
RESOLVED (a) That the update provided on Business Risk Management and the contents of the Corporate Risk Register be noted. (b) That the Committee receive a presentation outlining the risks regarding water quality and climate change, at a future meeting. (c) That a report be received from the Director of Social Care and Housing, outlining the progress made in addressing the recommendations outlined within the October 2024 Children’s Complex Care Packages Follow Up Audit.
RESOLVED (a) That the Budget Monitoring report Quarter 2 2024-25 be noted. (b) That a report outlining the legal situation in relation to Second Homes Premium Tax be presented to the Committee so due consideration can be given to the matter before any referral is made to the relevant Overview and Scrutiny Committee.
RESOLVED That the Compliments, Concerns and Complaints Annual Report for 2023-24 be noted.
RESOLVED That the 2023-24 Annual Self-Assessment report be noted, prior to approval by Council.
RESOLVED (a) That a full update to the Corporate Governance Improvement Plan will be presented to the Committee at its 4 February 2025 meeting be noted. (b) That a further update be provided at the 4 February 2025 meeting outlining the range of proposals which would be used to show how the Authority’s changes were being managed and how Officers were abiding by the Nolan Principles. [Mr John Evans left the meeting at this juncture.]
RESOLVED (a) That the dates of the meetings up until April 2025 be noted. (b) The forward work programme for the remainder of the Municipal Year, be approved, with an alteration to the formatting for future years to detail an annual rolling plan style.
No requests were received.
The following declarations of interest were made: Agenda Item No. 9 – Audit Wales - National Fraud Initiative 2022-23 • Councillor Maureen Bowen declared a personal interest by virtue of being a blue badge holder. Agenda Item No. 11 – Internal Audit & Counter Fraud Update • Councillor Maureen Bowen declared a personal interest by virtue of her partner being a teacher at Ysgol Harri Tudor.
· Reference was made to Minute 6 of the 10 September 2024 Meeting, during discussion of the Commercial Property Grant Scheme in Pembroke and Pembroke Dock matter, and a request was made by Mr John Evans for the following wording to be included subsequent to Paragraph 2 on page 15 of the agenda pack: Reference was made by Mr John Evans to a meeting he attended on the 28 May 2014 of which Mr Jonathan Haswell and Mr Kerry McDermott were in attendance of and stated that it was during that meeting where ‘decisions were being made to change resolutions of the Audit Committee’ that he had predicted the outcome of the police enquiry. He read out an extract of his journal from that meeting which stated that ‘The police investigation would come to nothing, and they would conclude that Pembrokeshire only has themselves to blame because of the sloppy controls that were in place’. · Reference was made to Minute 6 of the 10 September 2024 Meeting, during discussion of the Commercial Property Grant Scheme in Pembroke and Pembroke Dock matter and a request was made by Councillor Mike Stoddart, for Paragraph 5 on page 11 of the agenda pack to read as follows: On concluding questions for Councillor Jamie Adams, the Chair thanked him for his attendance and for presenting his perspective on issues and providing further context. She stated that his contribution had been helpful. Questions directed towards Mr Gwyn Evans were then invited. Moved by Dr Norma Barry; Seconded by Councillor Jacob Williams The votes, undertaken by way of a show of hands, were carried. RESOLVED That the Minutes of the Extraordinary Meeting held on 10 September 2024 be approved as a correct record subject to the above two amendments, in both English and Welsh. Moved by Dr Norma Barry; Seconded by Councillor Mike James The votes, undertaken by way of a show of hands, were carried. RESOLVED That the Minutes of the Meeting held on 1 October 2024 be approved as a correct record, in both English and Welsh.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That the updates in respect of actions arising from the last meeting be noted. (b) That further clarification be sought in relation to Action 6 – Penalty Clauses (Asset Management Work) with regards to what further action the Authority could take if there was a clear breach of the terms.
The Committee considered the follow-up actions from the last meeting and noted that an update in relation to Action 7 - Care Inspectorate Wales, Pembrokeshire County Council Adult Services, would be received at the next meeting due to the pending follow up visit scheduled for December. The Chair made reference to Action 6 – Penalty Clauses (Asset Valuation Work) and queried if penalty clauses should be included as standard within the terms of business of all contracts. The Director of Resources stated that all contracts were different so he was unable to comment on what would be included as standard across all Authority contracts. The Chair expressed that it was her view that penalty clauses should be included as standard, to which the Director of Resources agreed to take the suggestion away to explore further. Mr John Evans concurred with the Chair’s suggestion and stated that inclusion of such a clause would eliminate the Authority being let down on deadlines, which had happened previously. He queried what further action the Authority could take if there was a clear breach of the terms of business, to which an answer was not known so the Assistant Chief Executive agreed to seek further information from the Head of Property. Moved by Councillor Maureen Bowen; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the updates in respect of actions arising from the last meeting be noted. (b) That further clarification be sought in relation to Action 6 – Penalty Clauses (Asset Management Work) with regards to what further action the Authority could take if there was a clear breach of the terms.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That the Governance and Audit Committee Terms of Reference be noted. (b) That clarification be provided by the Head of Law and Governance as to how the political balance of the Governance and Audit Committee was determined. [Councillor Jacob Williams requested that his vote against the motion be noted.]
The Committee considered a report by the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager detailing the Committee’s Terms of Reference. The Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager presented the report and outlined the purpose of the Committee before welcoming questions from Members. Mr Martin Veale queried if any changes had been made to the Terms of Reference since the Committee last had sight of them, to which the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager responded to state that they had been made more explicit in detailing exactly what the Committee’s remit was. Councillor Alan Dennison made reference to Section 3 of the Terms of Reference - Membership of the Governance and Audit Committee – and stated that he did not agree with the statement that the Committee was ‘politically balanced’ as it had two unaffiliated Members and did not have representatives from Plaid Cymru Group or the Liberal Democrats Group, so requested that the statement ‘politically balanced’ be removed. Despite explanation from Officers and other Committee Members that the Committee was in-fact politically balanced as per the statutory requirement, and the reason for there being no representation from the stated groups was due to them not qualifying for a seat, Councillor Dennison requested that the matter be looked at further. Moved by Councillor Alan Dennison; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the Governance and Audit Committee Terms of Reference be noted. (b) That clarification be provided by the Head of Law and Governance as to how the political balance of the Governance and Audit Committee was determined. [Councillor Jacob Williams requested that his vote against the motion be noted.]
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Audit Wales Work Programme and Timetable for Quarter 2 be noted.
The Committee considered Audit Wales’s Work Programme and Timetable for Quarter 2. The Chair welcomed Alison Lewis from Audit Wales to the meeting to assist with any questions. There were no questions raised. Moved by Councillor Maureen Bowen; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Audit Wales Work Programme and Timetable for Quarter 2 be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That the findings of the Audit Wales report: ‘Sustainable development? – making best use of brownfield land and empty buildings’ be noted. (b) That a detailed update report be added to the Committee’s Forward Work Programme outlining the progress of the recommendations. (c) That the matter be added to the Internal Audit Programme for 2025-26.
The Committee considered a report by the Assistant Chief Executive in relation to the Audit Wales National Report: Sustainable Development? – Making best use of Brownfield Land and Empty Buildings. The Assistant Chief Executive introduced the report stating that the report was recommending that the Authority improve the way that regeneration was linked to brownfield land and empty buildings to enable a joined-up approach for regeneration of brownfield land. Members’ attention was drawn to the three recommendations contained within the report and the comments in relation to how the recommendations would be addressed by the Authority. It was stated that the report was also in the context of the Asset Management Strategy and in addition to what was stated within the report that the Head of Property was also working on a strategy to promote land and buildings that the Authority was unable to deliver, to business and communities to enable further opportunities. It was stated that the proposal being considered was a private sector driven proposal, and partnerships such as the Freeport could potentially bring significant capital to address matters such as decontamination of unused land. In response to a request from Mr John Evans for information in relation to an asset ‘status’ schedule, the Assistant Chief Executive advised that the Head of Property was currently conducting a large piece of work identifying all assets and determining the future of them, of which an update could be provided to the Committee in due course as the action plan started to materialise. Mr John Evans agreed that an update to the Committee would be beneficial, in the form of a high-level summary list with RAG ratings to provide assurance that the processes were effective in dealing with asset management. The Chief Executive advised that the Authority had a Governance Structure which dealt with asset management and suggested that the Committee also review that strategy as it would provide context on how the Authority’s assets were being managed. Councillor Mike Stoddart stated that within his ward there were three former school sites which lay vacant, with plans to utilise the land for housing in 2027-28, but stated that by the time work begins on the sites, they would have been vacant for around 10 years. He queried why the Council had not offered up the sites to housing associations to enable progress to be made sooner, considering the desperate need for housing within the County. The Assistant Chief Executive stated that whilst he was aware of the sites, he did not know the specific details of each situation so agreed to find out and report back. The Chair highlighted that it was the Committee’s role to ensure the recommendations made by Audit Wales were being taken forward so suggested that a detailed update report be added to the Committee’s Forward Work Programme outlining the progress of the recommendations and that the matter also be added to the Internal Audit Programme for 2025-26. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the findings of the Audit Wales report: ‘Sustainable development? – making best use of brownfield land and empty buildings’ be noted. (b) That a detailed update report be added to the Committee’s Forward Work Programme outlining the progress of the recommendations. (c) That the matter be added to the Internal Audit Programme for 2025-26.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Audit Wales report into the National Fraud Initiative in Wales 2022-23, be noted.
[Councillor Aled Thomas joined the meeting at this juncture.] The Committee considered an Audit Wales report in relation to the National Fraud Initiative (NFI) in Wales for 2022-23. The Chair reiterated that Alison Lewis from Audit Wales was in attendance to assist with any questions. The Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager introduced the report and stated that Pembrokeshire County Council was one of 49 organisations which took part in the National Fraud Initiative exercise for 2022-23. The key points of the report were highlighted and it was stated that the exercise had concluded that there had been £0.6 million more fraud in 2022-23 than in 2020-21, which was primarily due to a rise in the number of fraudulent or erroneous claims for housing benefit and Council Tax single person discount. Members were reminded that the Authority undertook an audit into Council Tax single person discount just over two years ago to ensure that those in receipt of the discount were eligible, so that was an area the Authority was already monitoring. It was noted that of the £7.1 million reported outcomes, 97% were from Local Authority data matches relating to Council Tax, housing benefit, blue badges, housing waiting lists and pensions. Members were informed that there was a checklist linked to the National Fraud Initiative which would be explained further during the upcoming training session with Committee Members. In summing up, the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager provided assurance that he was comfortable with where the Authority was in terms of data matching and working through the risk-based data that was received and would continue to report back to the Committee every quarter. Mr Martin Veale recognised that the Authority received a very large pool of matches for each data set produced and queried if every match was explored or if it was done on a sample basis, to then drill down into any areas identified to have concerns. The Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager advised that there was one dedicated Counter Fraud Officer within the service who explored all areas identified as high risk first and would then progress through the other areas identified as capacity allowed, with the assistance of software and a portion of the data matching being undertaken by the Revenues and Benefits Service. Mr Martin Veale raised questions in relation to any work undertaken regarding the cost of the National Fraud Initiative as he stated that whilst it may be free to the Authority, it was still a cost to the taxpayer, and a cost to the organisations which then conduct work to identify the matches. In response Alison Lewis, Audit Wales, advised that Audit Wales did not currently track what Authorities spend on their counter-fraud arrangements or the checking, however stated that the cost for undertaking the National Fraud Initiative work formed part of the National Studies programme and the answerable body for Audit Wales in Welsh Government was the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee who oversee that work programme and the financing of it. Following the above clarification being received, Mr Martin Veale expressed the importance of knowing the cost and benefits to exercises undertaken to ensure they were worthwhile. He made a suggestion that in future it would be helpful for some sample testing to be undertaken to ascertain how much Authorities are spending on the exercise, which was a suggestion supported by the Chair. Alison Lewis agreed to report the suggestion back to the National Fraud Initiative team. In response to comments made by Councillor Alan Dennison, the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager expressed that it was his opinion that it was an important exercise to do as it had Authority-wide benefits and the data received allowed the Authority to strengthen and assess the controls currently in place. Councillor Alan Dennison queried if the Enhancing Pembrokeshire Grant Scheme formed part of this exercise, to which the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager responded to advise that it did not, and that the scheme was dealt with via a specific internal audit. Moved by Councillor Mike James; Seconded by Councillor Maureen Bowen The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Audit Wales report into the National Fraud Initiative in Wales 2022-23, be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the proposed response to Audit Wales be noted and it was determined that no amendments were required.
The Committee considered a report by the Deputy Chief Finance Officer (Deputy S151 Officer) in relation to Audit Enquiries to those charged with Governance and Management. The Director of Resources introduced the report and stated that annually Audit Wales formally seek the Authority’s documented consideration and understanding on a number of the governance areas that impact on their audit of the Authority’s financial statements. This was done via a letter containing a series of questions for completion by those charged with governance and management. It was stated that the appended response was compiled by the Director of Resources and the Interim Head of Internal Audit, with input from relevant Officers in relation to the 2023-24 financial year. Mr Martin Veale and Mr John Evans commented that it had been beneficial to be able to compare the 2023-24 response against the 2022-23 response as it provided assurance that internal controls were being monitored. In response to a question raised by Mr Martin Veale, the Director of Resources confirmed that that exercise did not highlight any concerns in relation to control processes but stated that due to cuts being made year on year, alternative ways to strengthen internal control were always being considered. He added that if any concerns were raised as part of the exercise, they would be added into the audit programme. Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Councillor Maureen Bowen The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the proposed response to Audit Wales be noted and it was determined that no amendments were required.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Internal Audit and Counter Fraud update report to the 31 October 2024 be noted. Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Councillor Mike James The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the Internal Audit and Counter Fraud update report to the 31 October 2024 be noted. (b) That the revised Counter Fraud, Corruption and Bribery Policy Statement and Strategy, the Anti-Money Laundering Policy and the Know Your Customer and Due Diligence Procedure, be approved, with the inclusion of ‘Community Interest Companies’ within the Business Verification entity list.
The Committee considered a report by the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager in relation to the Internal Audit and Counter Fraud Update for 2024-25. The Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager introduced the report and stated that it outlined the work undertaken by Internal Audit up to 31 October 2024. The team were focused on delivering the quarterly programme of which progress was stated to be good, however, it was advised that any additional requests would mean re-prioritisation of work, in consultation with the Section 151 Officer. Due to progress made, the team had been able to draw additional jobs down from the approved Strategic Internal Audit Plan which had been pleasing. Reference was made to an Audit in relation to Children’s complex care packages, which had been finalised since the September Committee meeting and which resulted in a limited assurance review, of which updates on the recommendations made had been shared directly with Members. The success of the recommendation tracking was highlighted along with the pleasing levels of engagement in International Fraud Awareness Week. Three counter-fraud policies were outlined, which required Committee approval. It was stated that the number of counter fraud reports received this year had been higher than the previous year. Mr Martin Veale made reference to the recommendation tracker and requested that in future a brief commentary be included for the recommendations which were behind schedule to explain what the current status of them was. In response to a question raised by Mr Martin Veale in relation to staff training on the updated three policies, the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager stated that training would be provided to Elected Members, Authority employees and Governing Body Members via e-learning modules and a dedicated section on the Council’s intranet to access information and policies had been created. Councillor Alan Dennison made reference to the Business Verification entity list and following clarification received by the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager, a request was made for ‘Community Interest Companies’ to be included within the list, which was agreed. Mr John Evans made reference to the Children’s Complex Care Packages section of the report and requested further information in relation to the following statement ‘Additionally, testing found that residential contracts were signed by Officers who did not have adequate, documented delegated authority’. The Chief Executive advised that he would seek specific details on the matter and report back. Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Councillor Maureen Bowen The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Internal Audit and Counter Fraud update report to the 31 October 2024 be noted. Moved by Mr Martin Veale; Seconded by Councillor Mike James The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the Internal Audit and Counter Fraud update report to the 31 October 2024 be noted. (b) That the revised Counter Fraud, Corruption and Bribery Policy Statement and Strategy, the Anti-Money Laundering Policy and the Know Your Customer and Due Diligence Procedure, be approved, with the inclusion of ‘Community Interest Companies’ within the Business Verification entity list.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That the update provided on Business Risk Management and the contents of the Corporate Risk Register be noted. (b) That the Committee receive a presentation outlining the risks regarding water quality and climate change, at a future meeting. (c) That a report be received from the Director of Social Care and Housing, outlining the progress made in addressing the recommendations outlined within the October 2024 Children’s Complex Care Packages Follow Up Audit.
The Committee considered a report by the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager in relation to the Business Risk Management Update for Quarter 2 2024-25. The Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager introduced the report and stated that since April a new business risk management system had been implemented which would replace previously required administrative time and further details of the systems benefits were outlined. It was stated that the Corporate Risk Register remained a live document and following a recent meeting of the Senior Leadership Team, three risks has been escalated up to the Corporate Risk Register which included, water quality failure, climate change (coastal erosion and flooding) and schools delegated budgets (licenced deficits). Councillor Aled Thomas made reference to the Council housing stock decarbonisation programme and highlighted the actions to ‘develop a procurement and training programme for contractors and staff involved in retrofit and decarbonisation programmes’ and ‘work ongoing with Building Maintenance staff undertaking additional accredited training to become energy assessors’ and queried that if there was not currently any trained building maintenance staff doing that energy assessment, who was undertaking that work in Pembrokeshire. He stated that the matter was currently a Residual Rating of 12 but queried if this should be higher if adequate levels of staffing was not available. The Chief Executive advised that where internal capacity was not available, assurance inspections were commissioned out via the public sector procurement framework and whilst most of the contractors would be local/regional, capacity from out of county would be sought where required. The Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager agreed to seek further clarification on the matter from the Head of Housing and Public Protection and report back to Members. Councillor Aled Thomas made reference to ‘variable targets’ and requested further information on how Members can ascertain if progress had been made on such targets between each Committee meeting. In response the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager advised that the introduction of the new risk management system would now allow those targets to be monitored as recommendations which would allow more detailed progress updates to be provided in future. Councillor Alan Dennison made reference to school delegated budgets, licenced deficits, being listed as a Residual Rating of 12 and queried how that data was measured before increasing to a higher rating. The Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager directed Councillor Dennison to the assessment criteria outlined within the report and advised that the matter of deficits had also been highlighted as a corporate risk so was undergoing a specific audit. Councillor Mike Stoddart made reference to the increased poverty cost of living risk and queried how the Authority could control that. In response the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager advised that the Authority would do as much as possible to adequately support residents, but some risks would be transferred moving forward which could lead to potential change in legislation along with a number of risks awaiting guidance from Welsh Government. Following further information sought by Councillor Mike James in relation to how climate change risks, particularly flooding and water quality failure, would be monitored, it was agreed that further information on metrics would be sought from the Head of Planning and the matter would be added to the Committee’s forward work programme. The Chair made reference to the recent concerns in relation to Children’s Services and requested that a report be received from the Director of Social Care and Housing, outlining the progress made in addressing the recommendations outlined within the October 2024 Children’s Complex Care Packages Follow Up Audit. Moved by Councillor Alan Dennison; Seconded by Mr John Evans The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the update provided on Business Risk Management and the contents of the Corporate Risk Register be noted. (b) That the Committee receive a presentation outlining the risks regarding water quality and climate change, at a future meeting. (c) That a report be received from the Director of Social Care and Housing, outlining the progress made in addressing the recommendations outlined within the October 2024 Children’s Complex Care Packages Follow Up Audit.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That the Budget Monitoring report Quarter 2 2024-25 be noted. (b) That a report outlining the legal situation in relation to Second Homes Premium Tax be presented to the Committee so due consideration can be given to the matter before any referral is made to the relevant Overview and Scrutiny Committee.
The Committee considered a report by the Deputy Chief Finance Officer (Deputy S151 Officer) in relation to the County Council Budget Monitoring Report for Quarter 2 - 2024-25. The Chair welcomed the Cabinet Member for Corporate Finance and Efficiencies to introduce the report. It was stated that the demands and complexities of Social Care and housing were ongoing which were pressures being experienced across the region. Children’s Social Care continued to be the biggest concern for the Authority and whilst discussions had begun in relation to prevention work for the future, and work being undertaken by Welsh Government to remove profit from care, that work would not assist the current pressures. The projected outturn and subsequent projected overspend for 2024-25 was highlighted along with a shortfall in Council Tax collection, and any overspend for the current year would need to be funded from reserves. A range of unexpected external factors were outlined, which included the teachers’ pay award and it was stated that although Welsh Government had confirmed they would fully fund the difference, the draft settlement was awaited. Slippage in the Capital Programme was also highlighted to have been unexpected. The strained situation in relation to school balances was predicted to worsen with forecasting showing a downward trend, with additional schools edging on licensed deficits, despite support being provided by Officers. Concerns were also raised in relation to pressures within the Housing service. Mr John Evans made reference to the shortfall in Second Homes Council Tax Premium collection rates, due to Class 1 exemptions granted, and suggested that the matter be considered by the relevant Overview and Scrutiny Committee with a suggestion that the exemption arrangement be replaced by a rebate system, to be paid on completion of sale of the property. The Cabinet Member for Corporate Finance and Efficiencies provided some background information on the scheme and stated that the Authority was limited as to what could be implemented due to the Welsh Government legislation. Following further discussion on the matter it was agreed that legislation would be considered and an update provided to the Committee before any referral was made to the relevant Overview and Scrutiny Committee. In response to a question raised by Councillor Mike James in relation to postponing the planned budget seminar until the new year when the Authority would have received the draft settlement from Welsh Government, the Cabinet Member for Corporate Finance and Efficiencies stated that the budget seminar needed to go ahead as planned to enable discussion on prioritisation and budget cuts but stated that another seminar would be held in January to discuss the draft settlement in detail. In response to further information sought in relation to West Lodge by Councillor Alan Dennison, the Chief Executive advised that three out of four children were currently in situ, and highlighted that whilst the facility operating at full capacity was the goal, those allocated to the facility needed to be compatible with each other due to some of the facilities being shared and highlighted that recruitment difficulties had also been experienced; however roles had now been filled. He added that the highest cost placement was not located at West Lodge to which Councillor Dennison suggested that development of future facilities should take into consideration the specific needs of those placed out of County, at high placement costs. Following clarification sought by Councillor Aled Thomas in relation to the slippage in the Capital Programme, the Cabinet Member for Corporate Finance and Efficiencies stated that the Authority had not needed to borrow as early as anticipated and had borrowed internally which had resulted in the underspend. An update was requested by Councillor Aled Thomas following the resolution of the Policy and Pre-decision Overview and Scrutiny Committee with regards to the accrued interest from the ‘affordable homes’ money being ringfenced for housing purposes. The Cabinet Member for Corporate Finance and Efficiencies responded to advise that Cabinet had discussed the resolution but it was a complex matter which the Capital Team was looking into and an update would be provided when possible. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Councillor Maureen Bowen The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the Budget Monitoring report Quarter 2 2024-25 be noted. (b) That a report outlining the legal situation in relation to Second Homes Premium Tax be presented to the Committee so due consideration can be given to the matter before any referral is made to the relevant Overview and Scrutiny Committee.
The meeting was paused at 12:35pm for a break and resumed at 12:45pm. Councillor Alan Dennison left the meeting at this juncture and did not return.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Compliments, Concerns and Complaints Annual Report for 2023-24 be noted.
The Committee considered a report by the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager in relation to the Compliments, Concerns and Complaints Handling Annual Report. The Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager introduced the report and stated that the previous year’s data had not been included for comparison due to changes in the way departments sit within Directorates and also the introduction of the new system would mean the data would not have provided accurate comparisons. It was stated that the Council’s Senior Leadership Team was responsible for the Council's performance and were presented with complaints statistics monthly. Members were informed that Corporate complaints were not a statutory function, but Social Care complaints were. The number of complaints compared to previous years were outlined and were stated to be showing an upward trend. The stages and timescales of which the complaints were dealt with were outlined along with the complaints determined by the Public Services for Wales Ombudsman. It was highlighted that any lessons learned during stage two complaints were progressed via an action plan to ensure continuous improvement along with publishing quarterly data to the Ombudsman. To ensure consistency of complaint handling within the Authority, a two day course had been arranged with the Complaint Standard Agency for March 2025. Councillor Aled Thomas made reference to the complaints not being dealt with within the required timeframe and requested further information as to how many days/weeks over the target they were taking. In response, the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager stated that stage one complaints were taking a few more days and were mainly running overtime; in relation to building maintenance it was stated that a dedicated Officer had now been employed within the service to deal with compliance and complaints. It was highlighted that stage two delays were longer, due to the independent investigator approach the Authority takes. Members were informed that the timescales were set out for Corporate complaints as part of the model policy from the Ombudsman, and Social Care timescales were laid out in legislation. Concerns were raised that complaints were likely to increase year on year so to enable to the Authority to react within the timescales, system automation was being considered along with additional improvement ideas. Councillor Maureen Bowen queried what the timescale for acknowledgement of receiving the complaint was, to which the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager stated that a stage one Corporate complaint would be acknowledged within five working days, with a full response within ten working days, and a Social Care complaint would be acknowledged within two working days, with a full response within 15 working days. Conclusion of stage two complaints was stated to be 20 days for Corporate complaints and 25 days for Social Care complaints. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Councillor Aled Thomas The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Compliments, Concerns and Complaints Annual Report for 2023-24 be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the 2023-24 Annual Self-Assessment report be noted, prior to approval by Council.
The Committee considered a report by the Assistant Chief Executive in relation to the draft annual Self-Assessment report for 2023-2024. The Chair welcomed the Corporate Policy and Partnerships Manager and the Corporate Planning Manager to the meeting. The Corporate Policy and Partnerships Manager introduced the report stating that the report was a statutory requirement under the Local Government and Elections Act and was the third report the Authority had produced since the legislation was passed. The key points of the report were highlighted along with the conclusions on the extent to which the Council had met its performance requirements during the year and how improvements would be made over the next 12 months, of which improvements were embedded into service plans. The methodological approach was highlighted which provided a perspective of the health of the organisation at a broad level. It was noted that following 12 well-being objectives being agreed by Council, the framework for the report had been revised since last year, although it was stated that the corporate strategy was also being revised, with the aim to bring down the number of objectives from 12 to 4. Reference was made to the conclusion and it was commented that due to the scale and complexity of some of the challenges, demonstrating a year on year improvement was difficult. Mr John Evans commended the work of Officers in compiling the information contained within the report and queried if any reticence had been experienced when sourcing the required information. In response the Corporate Policy and Partnerships Manager stated that they had felt supported with the report and that much of the detail in the report had been provided by Heads of Service through the annual service planning process. Mr Martin Veale commented that the report was very helpful but queried whether the conclusion statement of ‘education had continued to improve’ meant educational outcomes as it stated within the report that ‘educational attainments had weakened’ so an explanation was sought. In response, the Corporate Policy and Partnerships Manager advised that the comment in the conclusion was in relation to improvements being made regarding the inspection framework of schools being in special categorisation but agreed that the sentence could be defined clearer, which he undertook to do before the report was presented to Council in December. Councillor Mike James made reference to grant funding to improve poverty and highlighted that often grant funding was only granted for new initiatives. It was queried if the Authority/applicants of the funding struggled to identify new initiatives to assist with poverty concerns, as without new ideas the Authority may not be eligible for the grants available. The Corporate Policy and Partnerships Manager stated that reducing poverty had been identified as a corporate priority and was also linked within the Public Services Board's Wellbeing Plan, of which a multi-agency partnership had been set up to assist with progressing the poverty agenda. It was stated that the various stakeholders ensured that the grant funding was targeted in the most effective way for the County. An answer in relation to the criteria required to obtain new grant funding was not able to be provided, so it was agreed that further information would be sought from the External Funding Manager. Following a request for further information sought by Councillor Mike James in relation to the level of provision for Adults to learn the Welsh language, it was agreed that the information would be sought and reported back. A suggestion was made by the Chair for the conclusion to reflect the challenges the Authority currently faced more heavily, to ensure the reality of the current situation was being portrayed. The Chair queried whether the progress of the proposed improvement actions for 2023-24 would be reflected in the 2024-25 report, to which the Corporate Policy and Partnerships Manager agreed that the 2024-25 report could be adapted to show how the suggested improvements were progressed. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Councillor Mike James. The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the 2023-24 Annual Self-Assessment report be noted, prior to approval by Council.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That a full update to the Corporate Governance Improvement Plan will be presented to the Committee at its 4 February 2025 meeting be noted. (b) That a further update be provided at the 4 February 2025 meeting outlining the range of proposals which would be used to show how the Authority’s changes were being managed and how Officers were abiding by the Nolan Principles. [Mr John Evans left the meeting at this juncture.]
The Committee considered a joint report by the Assistant Chief Executive/Head of Law and Governance in relation to the Corporate Governance Improvement Plan Update. The Assistant Chief Executive presented the report and stated that whilst the Committee had not received an update on the plan since February, background work had continued. It was stated that Council considered a revised plan in May of which a summary of that report was submitted to Audit Wales outlining the progress made on the recommendations, which was currently being considered. The Authority was of the view that good progress had been made, particularly as some of the recommendations were slightly ambitious, particularly in relation to cultural change, and a further update would be reported to the Committee in February 2025. In response to a question raised by the Chair in relation to a proposed deadline for delegation work, the Assistant Chief Executive was hoping to be able to report back to the Committee in February that it was completed. Following discussion in relation to how the Authority ensured that the Nolan Principles were being adhered to and how the cultural changes were being managed, the Chair requested that a further update be provided at the February 2025 meeting outlining the range of proposals which would be used to show how the Authority’s changes were being managed and how the Nolan Principles were being abided by, by Officers, which was agreed. Moved by Mr John Evans; Seconded by Councillor Aled Thomas The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That a full update to the Corporate Governance Improvement Plan will be presented to the Committee at its 4 February 2025 meeting be noted. (b) That a further update be provided at the 4 February 2025 meeting outlining the range of proposals which would be used to show how the Authority’s changes were being managed and how Officers were abiding by the Nolan Principles. [Mr John Evans left the meeting at this juncture.]
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That the dates of the meetings up until April 2025 be noted. (b) The forward work programme for the remainder of the Municipal Year, be approved, with an alteration to the formatting for future years to detail an annual rolling plan style.
The Committee considered the Forward Work Programme for 2024-25 and agreed that the Committee’s terms of reference being appended to the work programme going forward would be beneficial. Mr Martin Veale suggested that the format of the work programme be altered to preview an annual rolling plan style, which would make correlation with the terms of reference clearer, which was a suggestion accepted by the Audit, Risk and Counter Fraud Manager. The Chair informed Members that a resignation had been received from Mr Martin Veale, who would be stepping down from the Committee in March 2025. On behalf of the Committee, the Chair expressed thanks to Mr Veale for his contributions to the Committee and wished him well for the future. Moved by Councillor Jacob Williams; Seconded by Mr Martin Veale The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the dates of the meetings up until April 2025 be noted. (b) The forward work programme for the remainder of the Municipal Year, be approved, with an alteration to the formatting for future years to detail an annual rolling plan style.
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