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The decisions as the council's minutes record them. A plain-language summary follows once it has been written.
RESOLVED That the report be noted.
RESOLVED That the Forward Work Programme be accepted.
RESOLVED The Committee Recommends that: a) The Council writes to the Welsh Minister of Education with its concern with the lack of support from Welsh Government for implementing the new ALN Act. b) The Committee communicates with the Social Services Department Panel to highlight the need for social care staff support with planning and assessments. c) The Council recognises the school’s important role when determining future budgets and take the necessary measures to ensure the capital spending is not cut.
RESOLVED That the report be noted. [The Meeting adjourned at 12:17 and reconvened at 12:27]
RESOLVED a) That the report be noted. That the Committee conducts regular evaluations to monitor the impact of the asymmetric week on attendance, pupil outcomes, overall school performance, regularly track attendance plans and implement strategies to address any issues on an annual basis.
RESOLVED That the report be noted.
RESOLVED That the report be noted.
RESOLVED That the report be endorsed.
Councillor Mike Stoddart declared a personal interest by virtue of the fact that he had two close relatives that worked in schools in Pembrokeshire. Councillor Viv Stoddart declared a personal interest by virtue of the fact that she had two close relatives that worked in schools in Pembrokeshire. The following declarations of interest were made in respect of Agenda Item No. 8 – Asymmetric Schools and No. 10 - Teacher Retention & Recruitment: Mrs Alison Kavanagh declared a personal interest by virtue of the fact that she was a Parent Governor Representative at Ysgol Harri Tudur. Councillor Maureen Bowen declared a personal interest by virtue of the fact that her partner worked as a teacher Councillor Alistair Cameron declared a personal interest in respect of Agenda Item No. 8 – Asymmetric School by virtue of the fact that he was a Local Authority appointed School Governor of Greenhill School.
Councillor David Howlett Moved that the Minutes of the Meeting held on the 15 July 2024 be approved as a correct record; Seconded by Councillor Alistair Cameron. The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Minutes of the Meeting held on 15 July 2024 be approved as a correct record.
The Public Correspondence was taken as part of Agenda Item No. 9 – Elective Home Education.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the report be noted.
The Committee considered a report by the Head of Democratic Services on the Action Log. The Recommendation was Moved by Councillor Alistair Cameron; Seconded by Councillor Anji Tinley. The votes, undertaken by way of a show of hands, were carried. RESOLVED That the report be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Forward Work Programme be accepted.
The Committee considered the Forward Work Programme. Moved by Councillor Alistair Cameron; Seconded by Councillor David Howlett. The votes, undertaken by way of a show of hands, were carried. RESOLVED That the Forward Work Programme be accepted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED The Committee Recommends that: a) The Council writes to the Welsh Minister of Education with its concern with the lack of support from Welsh Government for implementing the new ALN Act. b) The Committee communicates with the Social Services Department Panel to highlight the need for social care staff support with planning and assessments. c) The Council recognises the school’s important role when determining future budgets and take the necessary measures to ensure the capital spending is not cut.
Mrs Jane Harris noted that there were 190 students enrolled at the school instead of 199 as recorded in the report and she provided an update of the school’s development since the visit in April 2024. She presented the details of the report to the Committee, emphasising the needs of the children they accommodate, and the recruitment challenges referenced in the report. As Full Council voted in favour of Portfield School being allocated more funding, Mrs Jane Harris noted that the school was now in surplus, and this meant that they could recruit more staff to accommodate the increasing numbers of students. They will be able to recruit staff members when the new build is completed in November 2025. Regarding the new build, Mrs Jane Harris noted that it would include 10 classrooms for the primary phase and three in early years. As there was a demand in the primary school phase, there will be more, but smaller classes placed in the new build. She continued that it would accommodate the whole primary phase and will all be on one level. Mrs Jane Harris stated that some pupils went on a school trip to Europe and a PowerPoint was available for the committee to view a video on this. She concluded that a permanent full-time Head Teacher had been appointed and they will start in January 2025. To add to this, Mrs Samantha Lawrence praised the visit, and she highlighted the need for the new build and how it would accommodate the children. In response to a question from Councillor Cameron regarding recruitment issues and the new build, Mrs Jane Harris clarified that the new build would enable them to have more, smaller classes but they would still need to recruit more staff members. They had three vacancies for senior HLTAs (Higher Level Teaching Assistant), vacancies for LSAs (Learning Support Assistants), in administration and with general vacancies. She noted that some applicants who were short listed would not turn up or they would get jobs elsewhere. Sometimes not a lot of people would apply, and some applicants would not be suitable. Mrs Harris noted that there was a teacher shortage in Pembrokeshire and that the lower ranking roles e.g. LSAs, were paid poorly. She concluded that since Covid-19, people preferred to work from home. With regards to recruitment, Councillor Cameron queried whether there was anything they thought the Council should do. In response, Mrs Jane Harris suggested that the Council and schools visited institutions of higher learning as a recruitment drive to get into teaching, whether as a teacher or learning assistant. She said that the video in the PowerPoint was successful in recruiting for Haverford West High as well as with investment from the Education Directorate. Not all schools had the same facilities and resources though. Mrs Jane Harris that Welsh Government are lobbied for extra funding. Regarding the new build, Councillor Howlett queried if it would be enough due to the increasing demand of the school’s services. Mrs Jane Harris said that the new build would most likely be at capacity once it is built as this had happened in her previous schools after a new building was built. This is because of the amount of time it took for the building to finish. As Portfield was the only specialist school in Pembrokeshire, they were the only school that could accommodate specific pupils. To add to this, the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community stated that the new build would increase school capacity to 210-220 students and there were 175-180 statutory learners at the school. He concluded that it should accommodate the pupils for some time to come. The Chair praised the work done by the school. The Recommendation was Moved by Councillor Alistair Cameron; Seconded by Councillor Sam Skyrme-Blackhall. The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED The Committee Recommends that: a) The Council writes to the Welsh Minister of Education with its concern with the lack of support from Welsh Government for implementing the new ALN Act. b) The Committee communicates with the Social Services Department Panel to highlight the need for social care staff support with planning and assessments. c) The Council recognises the school’s important role when determining future budgets and take the necessary measures to ensure the capital spending is not cut.
In order to accommodate the public speaker, Agenda Item 9 – Elective Home Education was taken as the next item.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the report be noted. [The Meeting adjourned at 12:17 and reconvened at 12:27]
The Committee considered a joint report by the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community and Education Welfare Service Manager on Elective Home Education. The Chair welcomed them to the meeting, who outlined the key points of the report and welcomed questions from Members. In response to a question from Councillor Viv Stoddart regarding the statutory guidance, the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community clarified that the statutory guidance was required as part of the 1996 Education Act and it covers all the significant aspects of education law, including the implications of the law and what the expectations are of local authorities and schools. As the guidance is statutory, he continued that it could only be ‘departed with’ if there was an excellent reason for doing so. Councillor Howlett noted that Pembrokeshire had high levels of home educators compared to the Welsh average, especially as Pembrokeshire had an older population. He queried if there were ‘geographical hotspots’ for home education. It was clarified that the ‘per 1000’ referenced in the report alluded to 1000 school age pupils. To add to this, the Education Welfare Service Manager confirmed that home educators were countywide. In response to Councillor Cameron, the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community concurred that the highest levels of home education in Wales were rural counties. More pupils tend to be home educated when they hear of people they know doing it; however, home education levels in Pembrokeshire had dropped recently. The Head of Engagement, Performance & Community suggested that West Wales’ rurality might be a reason why home education was higher there. Councillor Bowen queried if there was a link between home education and non-attendance fines and whether children rejoined school during exam season because of the costs. In response, the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community acknowledged that non-attendance fines were a factor, but it was not a significant one. To add to this, the Education Welfare Service Manager said that not many home educated pupils rejoined schools for exams and officers supported the parents of home educated pupils at this time. It was clarified that there were 303 home educated pupils in 2023 in Pembrokeshire, but it had increased over the years. The Head of Engagement, Performance & Community added that the most common reason for home education was because parents felt that school were not working for their child. In response to a question from Councillor Marc Tierney regarding the impact on the authority, the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community stated that two new posts had been created to check in with home educated children due to the increase in home education. To add to this, the Education Welfare Service Manager stated that the new Elective Home Education Advisor had an excellent rapport with home education families and the new Elective Home Education Assistant was carrying out engagement activities with them. However, there were some education supervision orders in place with families who were not engaging with the officers. In terms of finding the ‘headroom’ for the additional posts, the Director of Education said that they needed to fund the posts within the current budget. The team worked with over 400 pupils and 300 families and needed to be able to provide sustainable support for them. The Education Welfare Service Manager noted that there had been an increase in Year 11’s leaving school to become homeschooled which was concerning as they had exams. This normally happened as there was a breakdown between homes and schools. Councillor Bethan Price queried the process of how ‘unknown’ children became ‘known’. In response, the Education Welfare Service Manager stated that the Council had a ‘children missing education’ database which is made up of referrals from members of the public or the Police. This prompts enquiries, home visits and welfare check to see what education is being carried out; this often led to elective home education referrals. Regarding homeschooled children, Councillor Sam Skyrme-Blackhall questioned how often they were monitored by the local authority. Responding to this, the Education Welfare Service Manager said that this was dependent on the family situation. All families received an annual visit but if some families required more support, then they would be visited more. The Chair welcomed Dr Ruth McGee from Home Ed Cymru who was invited to the meeting to provide representation from the home education network. Dr Ruth McGee informed the Committee that she was a home educator, and the home education community felt that the 2023 Home Education Guidance (not legislation) confused the situation for them and Councils. She continued that they would like a respectful and lawful approach to home education in the future. Home education requests primarily came from parents wanting to be involved in their children’s education and some said that they wish they started sooner. She noted that the comments on whether the guidance was statutory or not was conflicting in the report and there was no legal change. Dr Ruth McGee concluded that there was no mandate to monitor home education Councillor Cameron concurred that it was good that parents got positively involved in their children’s education but there was a concern that children were not getting the best opportunities and were kept safe. In response, Dr Ruth McGee stated that educational provision was parental responsibility and home education provision was included in the Education Act. She continued that home education was not a safeguarding issue and there was research stated that there were fewer safeguarding concerns with home educated children. The home education groups objected to report ‘created a climate of suspicion’ and there was an institutionalised biases towards home educators. In the report, Councillor Viv Stoddart noted that it stated that home educated children needed to be seen doing work when visited by the Council. She queried if this was intrusive. Dr Ruth McGee concurred with this and said that there was no legal basis for the children’s work to be viewed and this risked Council’s to act unlawfully. There would also be data protection implications. Regarding GCSEs, Councillor Howlett questioned whether there resulted outcomes for home educated children. In response, Dr Ruth McGee stated that it would be impossible to prove whether school or home educated children scored better in GCSEs but home educated children ‘flourished’ and had more diverse results. In response to a question from Councillor Skyrme-Blackhall regarding home educated children missing out on peer interactions, Dr Ruth McGee said it was healthier out of school because the activities were more diverse and not limited to a specific age range. She added that this helped children self-regulate and the activities could be child led. Following a question from Councillor Tierney regarding the increase of home education in Pembrokeshire, Dr Ruth McGee replied that there would be a lot of reasons, but the most common reason was Covid-19 when parents needed to teach at home. A lot of parents enjoyed this and continued doing it. Councillor Tierney noted that not all parents had the time to home educate and some preferred for their children to follow the school curriculum. He noted that school education provided Welsh language and financial provisions that some families could not provide. In response, Dr Ruth McGee stated that home education was always a parental choice and there were home education support groups and spaces for home educations to get help from. There were also a lot of resources for home educators to use to teach children. She continued that home educators saved money on uniform and school trips, but some struggled to pay and access exams at exam centres. She concluded that exam centres needed to be more accessible for home educated children. Regarding post-education, Councillor Iwan Ward queried what the statistics were for 16-18 year old home educated children going into work or living off the state. Dr Ruth McGee stated that she personally did not know any home educated children who lived off the state apart from severely neurodivergent people who would not be able to work. She continued that historically, they had been a self-sufficient community. Mrs Alison Kavanagh noted that the introduction of the ALN reform, and the expectation on schools of universal provision linked to a lengthy waiting list for assessments and referrals, and schools having to drop subjects in the current economic climate due to a lack of resources would have all contributed to the increase in home education. In response to a question from Councillor Price regarding physical education for home educated children, Dr Ruth McGee stated that it would be the parent’s responsibility to determine this, but they could still attend afterschool clubs. With regards to home educated children taking exams, the Education Welfare Service Manager stated that out of 50 eligible children, they could only confirm that eight of these children took GCSE exams. It was confirmed that there was no national data. The Head of Engagement, Performance & Community agreed to provide the full costs that home education costed the Council. Councillor Mike Stoddart noted that home education focused on educational outcomes then results. He acknowledged the difficulty of home educators not wanted to be observed ‘by the state’ all the time but ‘the state’ needed to ensure that children were not kept under the radar. The Head of Engagement, Performance & Community concurred with this but stated that the United Kingdom had one of the more ‘relaxed’ approached to home education so an international comparison could be more useful. He continued that there was a judicial case around this in 2021 against Portsmouth City Council where a parent said they did not have the right to monitor home education. The Council won the review. Councillor Huw Murphy acknowledged that most home educated children lived primarily rural, Welsh speaking areas and it was essential that every child could learn the Welsh language. Regarding 2.6 in the report, Councillor Mike Stoddart queried how the Council was meant to assess the suitability of the education parents provided. In response, the Education Welfare Service Manager stated that they asked for examples of the children learning and this could be in video or paper format. To add to this, the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community noted that asking for examples was a ‘grey area’ as legislation states that no evidence is required but the judicial review in Portsmouth says they do, and they have the powers to escalate it. He concluded that the right to education was covered in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and British law, and it could not be neglected by anyone including parents. The Recommendation was Moved by Councillor Alistair Cameron; Seconded by Councillor Anji Tinley. The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the report be noted. [The Meeting adjourned at 12:17 and reconvened at 12:27]
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED a) That the report be noted. That the Committee conducts regular evaluations to monitor the impact of the asymmetric week on attendance, pupil outcomes, overall school performance, regularly track attendance plans and implement strategies to address any issues on an annual basis.
The Committee considered a report by the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community on Asymmetric Schools who outlined the key points of the report and welcomed questions from Members. As the report implied that asymmetric schools were primarily in areas with higher poverty rates, Councillor Tierney queried what support the families received. In response, the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community noted that this depended on the family’s circumstances but the feedback from these families was mixed about asymmetric weeks as it encouraged more family time but cut working hours short for parents/guardians. Consultation respondents were 50% happy with the week, 25% negative and 25% indifferent. He concluded that most schools did it to have more time to train staff then to help more economically deprived families. Following a supplementary from Councillor Tierney regarding attendance, the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community confirmed that in all schools, asymmetric or not, attendance reduced towards to end of the week. It was too soon to determine educational outcomes for asymmetric weeks but Estyn said that schools could not provide benefits of asymmetric weeks for pupils, but it showed a benefit to staff. Councillor Cameron acknowledged the difficulty of the questions asked by Estyn in their report on asymmetric schools. In response, the Director of Education said that Estyn left the questions in their report as prompts to help the Council develop evaluation arrangements with schools, evaluating securely and support schools with evaluation too. He noted that any school improvements would be difficult to relate to asymmetric weeks and the questions had helped the Council’s evaluation measures. The Head of Engagement, Performance & Community concurred with this and said that the questions asked by Estyn were rhetorical and were meant to help with evaluating asymmetric schools. Councillor Viv Stoddart concurred that asymmetric weeks primarily supported staff than pupils and she said that pupils would often be in town centres on Friday afternoons then extracurricular activities. Regarding the Estyn report, the Director of Education said that Estyn likely noted the work done by the Committee and that school attendance rates was a national issue and the report itself was part of a pilot visit looking at attendance and asymmetric weeks in schools. They heard directly from schools on why and why not they chose to become asymmetric. With regards to asymmetric weeks, Councillor Viv Stoddart noted that grandparents should have been consulted by Estyn as they would often provide childcare on Friday afternoons if their grandchild went to an asymmetric school. In response, the Director of Education clarified that Estyn visited Pembrokeshire for two days and they met with some school governors or received written submission from them. The committee report included what parents wanted to improve like communication with the school. As a trustee of the Darwin Centre, Councillor Viv Stoddart stated that they had to reduce what they could offer to schools on asymmetric weeks as their activities would last all day. Councillor Bowen noted that at her local school, children who got the bus there could not stay for afternoon activates on Fridays as they would not be able to get home otherwise. She queried the impact that asymmetric weeks impacted school staff retention. In response, the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community acknowledged that less pupils went to school on Friday, but most would turn up. He added that if school budgets were cut, this may lead to an increase in asymmetric schools as legally, they did not need to be open five days a week. It was clarified that this would be the cause of school running costs and not staff costs. Councillor Bowen noted that there was a lot of extra pressure on teachers to engage with parents who would not engage. In response to a question from Mrs Alison Kavanagh on whether the same pupils missed school on Fridays, the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community said that they did not have this information to hand. To add to this, Mrs Alison Kavanagh queried if the poor infrastructure in Pembrokeshire would mean that there would always be an attendance issue in Pembrokeshire. Regarding teacher recruitment and retention, Mrs Alison Kavanagh noted that work time pressures were common reasons why the teachers left the profession and this could be considered if schools moved to four day weeks. The Chair noted that there was not a countywide policy for asymmetric schools and whether the Committee would like one. In response, Councillor Howlett stated that the struggle to maintain teachers led to schools moving to asymmetric weeks so he would prefer that schools maintain the right to decide how they carry out asymmetric weeks. Councillor Viv Stoddart suggested that the recommendation be added to, to include, “that schools conduct regular evaluations to monitor the impact of the asymmetric week on attendance, pupil outcomes, overall school performance, regularly track attendance plans and implement strategies”. With regards to the Estyn report, Councillor Anji Tinley objected that Estyn said asymmetric schools only helped teachers and not students. She spoke to the young people she worked with on asymmetric weeks, and they felt they missed out on social time, and she concluded that asymmetric weeks should be four long days rather than four and a half days. It was confirmed that there was no set end time for Fridays with asymmetric schools, but the schools needed to advertise this in their school prospectus. Regarding education hours, the Director of Education confirmed that there were 25 hours of educational learning weekly at Key Stage 2 and 26.5 hours at Key Stage 3. They school would determine how to fit these in. He concluded that any four-day week proposals would have implication on transport and catering and consultations would need to be had with Unions. As asymmetric schools normally had more free school meals, Councillor Mike Stoddart said that it would be good to see if this was the case before the school became asymmetric and whether this affected attendance too. In response, the Head of Engagement, Performance & Community acknowledged that attendance was historically worse in areas with higher deprivation and the free-school meals were acknowledged in the report as it linked with attendance rates. He noted that not all schools who had the most free school meals were asymmetric. Councillor Viv Stoddart suggested that the following wording be added as a recommendation, “That the Committee recommend regular valuations to monitor the impact the asymmetric week had on attendance, performance and pupil outcomes and that schools regularly track attendance patterns and implement strategies to address any issues.” She suggested that an update report be brought back in six months or a years’ time. Councillor Cameron suggested that an update report in six months would be too soon as sone schools had just introduced the asymmetric week and they needed to successfully determine the improvements in teaching following the implementation of the asymmetric week. Moved by Councillor Rhys Jordan; Seconded by Councillor Marc Tierney. The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED a) That the report be noted. That the Committee conducts regular evaluations to monitor the impact of the asymmetric week on attendance, pupil outcomes, overall school performance, regularly track attendance plans and implement strategies to address any issues on an annual basis.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the report be noted.
The Committee considered a report from the Director of Education who highlighted the challenges raised in the report and welcomed questions from Members. Councillor Tierney expressed his concerns about the suitability of Welsh language teachers teaching in Pembrokeshire and he queried the work that was done with teaching training organisations. In response, the Director of Education acknowledged the difficulty in recruiting Welsh speaking teachers in Pembrokeshire and they had partnerships with teacher trainers including the National Centre for Learn Welsh where parents would be able to teach in the Welsh Medium, but they needed an exponential growth with this. Ysgol Bro Preseli was the county’s lead partner with the University of Wales (Trinity St David) but the teacher training course was removed from Aberystwyth University. Councillor Cameron noted that work needed to be done to recruit into Pembrokeshire itself. Regarding teaching institutions, the Education Improvement & Commissioning Advisor said that they were strengthening the current partnerships with them; this included officers talking directly with students at Aberystwyth and Swansea Universities respectively. With Trinity St David’s, he continued that they were looking at ‘growing your own teachers’ and this should start before Christmas 2024. Councillor Bowen queried why the teacher Unions were no spoken to in this issue. In response, the Director of Education clarified that the Unions were met with monthly to discuss challenges arising Locally, there were many different reasons why teachers left the profession, including pay, poor work-life balance and workloads. He continued that there was a working group looking at how the pressure from bureaucracy and targets in teaching could be reduced. Regarding retention, the Director of Education stated that it was generally consistent and of reasonable quality but there were ‘pinch points’, with the recruitment and retention of teachers of Welsh as a second language in English Medium schools and STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) teachers. Councillor Mike Stoddart recounted that he knew ex-teachers who left the profession because of the lack of support and the difficulties they had with misbehaving children, but teachers did not want to admit that they could not cope with the pupils. He stated that this issue should be taken more seriously. In response, the Director of Education clarified that the ‘lack of support’ referenced in the report referenced a lot of different areas including isolation, not being supported during induction or not being supported by their manager. The Chair concurred with Councillor Mike Stoddart’s comments and he added that teachers he knew were having to carry out basic welfare for their students including brushing their teeth. To add to this, Councillor Cameron noted that the school management improvement at Greenhill School led to improvements with support for teachers. The Recommendation was Moved by Councillor Alistair Cameron; Seconded by Councillor Marc Tierney The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the report be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the report be noted.
The Committee considered a report on the Voice of the Learner from the Children & Young People's Rights Officer who highlighted the contents of the report and welcomed questions from Members. The Chair praised the work done by the Children & Young People's Rights Officer and how they worked with other organisations to get young people heard. Councillor Tinley noted how hard the Children & Young People's Rights Officer had worked for this too and how they had managed to get young people to think differently. The Recommendation was Moved by Councillor Anji Tinley; Seconded by Councillor Mel Philipps. The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the report be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the report be endorsed.
The Committee considered a report by the Head of Democratic Services. The Chair welcomed the Head of Democratic Services to the meeting, who outlined the achievements made by the Committee in the past year and the work done to improve public awareness of meetings. The Chair expressed his pleasure in the increased public engagement for Overview and Scrutiny Committees. He also praised all the work done by Democratic Services. Councillor Cameron noted that he was down as the wrong political party in the Schools and Learning section. Regarding Member training, Councillor Skyrme-Blackhall praised the training provided by Democratic Services and she noted that some Members needed to carry out their mandatory POD training. The Recommendation was Moved by Councillor Rhys Jordan; Seconded by Councillor Alistair Cameron. The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the report be endorsed.
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