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The decisions as the council's minutes record them. A plain-language summary follows once it has been written.
RESOLVED That the forward work programme be approved.
RESOLVED That the Outline Draft County Council Budget for 2024-25, the Outline Draft MTFP for 2024-25 to 2027-28 and the Provisional Local Government Settlement for 2024-25 be noted and its comments presented to Cabinet.
RESOLVED That the updates from the Poverty Working Group be noted.
RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the Draft Strategic Equality Plan 2024-28 and that its comments be presented to Cabinet in March 2024, along with the results of the consultation on the document.
RESOLVED That the Future Workforce Plan be endorsed.
RESOLVED That the Pay Policy Statement 2024-25 and its comments be noted for Council for approval on 7th March 2024.
RESOLVED That Cabinet be recommended to determine whether money made from County Farm land sales remains within the County Farm Portfolio.
There were no declarations of interest.
Moved by Josh; Seconded by Mike James
There was no public submission
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the forward work programme be approved.
The Chair noted that the Complaints Policy and Managing Customer Contact Policy needed to be added to the work programme. The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the forward work programme be approved.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Outline Draft County Council Budget for 2024-25, the Outline Draft MTFP for 2024-25 to 2027-28 and the Provisional Local Government Settlement for 2024-25 be noted and its comments presented to Cabinet.
The Committee considered a report by the Director of Resources on the Draft County Council Budget and MTFP 2024-25. The Chair welcomed Councillor Alec Cormack, the relevant Cabinet Member with responsibility for Corporate Finance to the meeting who outlined the key points of the report and welcomed questions from Members. The Committee debated the contents of the report and the key points were highlighted as follows: Councillor Cormack stated that the Provisional Statement was included in the agenda pack as it was not ready in December 2023. The Director of Resources informed the Committee that the budget was a multiyear problem and for the 2023/24 financial year the Council overspent by £3.6 million. This overspend was caused by more children needing to be placed out of county. For the 2024/25 financial year there was a funding gap of £28.4 million and in the MTFP there were financial gaps of £21.5 million, £17.5 million and £14.7 million. Over four years this was a gap of £82.1 million. Difficult decisions were needed imminently for financial sustainability. In response to a question from the Chair regarding the saving coloured ‘deep red’, Councillor Cormack clarified that the ‘deep red’ savings were service delivery area that either would not be delivered to the statutory level or delivery quality would be severely impacted. If not actioned, significant cuts would be made to highways, infrastructure and further cuts could be done to education and individual sports budgets. In response to Councillor Aled Thomas regarding individual school budget cuts, Councillor Cormack stated that annually with the budget, they set out how much money would be needed to provide the same service for the next year and then cut back. For the 2024/25 financial year, services was costing 1-2% more than the previous year. The Director of Education added that once Council set an education budget, this is ran through the school formula which is made up of different factors. Pupils are 70% of the formula and this included additional learning needs, school premises, energy costs and other factors which make up the school budgets. Depending on Council’s decision with school budget settings, each school receives their proportion of the budget which is mainly based on the number of pupils. In 2023/24 the school budget was £89 million, due to inflation this would be £97 million in 2024/25. Council will then take percentage cuts away from this, for 2024 this would mean a 1-2% cut off £97 million. Following a question from Councillor Mike James regarding schools with reserves at dangerous levels, Councillor Cormack confirmed that nine schools were in deficit. School reserves had been depleting since Covid-19 and they were predicted to be gone by the end of 2025. Pay for teachers was something that affected the budget that the Council could not control as this was decided by Welsh Government. The Director of Education added that between 20-30 schools would be balancing their budgets with little reserves or be at risk of deficit in 2024. The education and resources directorates worked together to set balanced budgets. Council reserves paid for schools in deficit budgets. Councillor Alan Dennison queried that litter bin provision at events would be cut as it was listed ‘deep red’. Councillor Cormack agreed to address this in the Budget Seminar. In response to a question from the Chair on reserves, Councillor Cormack clarified that reserves was money that had not been spent yet. Spendable reserves was money that was earmarked to be spent on specific projects like the Initiative Fund which allowed senior officers to spend money to reduce costs in an area or invest in another. The base budget needed to be balanced against the Council’s income. The Section 151 Officer/Director of Resources had this responsibility. There had been an unexpected increase in costs for social care and this meant that 130-140 saving measures needed to be done over next year. The Director of Resources stated that free reserves could not be used as they were earmarked for asset renewal and risk repair. The reserves not planned for specific purposes were there for the Initiative Fund and General Fund; this amounted to £8 million. The Initiative Fund was being used to generate savings in the future. There had been ongoing issues left over from Covid-19 but this should ease in later years. Using the reserves now would not solve the funding issues in the long term. The overspend for 2023/24 would be funded from the reserves imminently and the budget savings for the 2024/25 financial year would come out of the reserves too. The Director of Resources concluded that the Council was awaiting confirmation with the Teachers Employees’ Pension contribution was going to be funded by Central Government; until it is, the Council itself needs to fund which would cost £3 million. The reserves should not be drained unless there were planes to replenish them. In response to a question from Councillor Dennison on improvement advisor posts, the Director of Education stated that improvement advisors worked with schools to improve them including development plans and student learning needs; schools under ‘special measures’ were worked with most. This work for secondary schools was already undertaken by the education senior team. Removing two days of work for the improvement advisors would bring eight schools into the work that the senior education team already did. In response to Councillor Thomas, Councillor Cormack agreed to cover the reserve levels for 2023/24 at the budget seminar. Councillor Michael Williams noted that Pembrokeshire had the lowest Council tax rate in Wales since 1996 and inflationary pressures meant that he was struggling to get works carried out in his division. He queried whether a proposed 15% tax increase would be sustainable. Councillor Cormack stated that the proposed 15% tax increase would take them towards the average tax rate with other Welsh Councils. If Pembrokeshire did not increase its tax rate then more job cuts would be needed instead. Carmarthenshire’s tax rate was 11% higher than Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion had a 16% higher tax rate, therefore they had bigger reserves than Pembrokeshire. It was predicted that there would be no increase in Welsh Government funding despite inflationary pressures. In response to Councillor Williams, Councillor Cormack stated that Ceredigion were likely increasing their Council tax rate by 13.9% because all local authorities were struggling. In response to a question from Councillor Pat Davies on pupil deprivation grants, the Director of Education said that Welsh Government was planning to reform grant allocations into four different areas; school standards, equity, curriculum reform and the Welsh language. It was unknown what Pembrokeshire’s allocation would be. Councillor Thomas queried why Council tax was not increased when the current administration was appointed. He added that Welsh Government chose to not appoint more AMF to Welsh authorities as they only received a 2.5% increase whereas English authorities got a 6.5% increase from central government. Councillor Cormack stated that there had been Council tax increases since 2017, when the current administration was appointed, but they were limited to what the executive thought they could get approved by Full Council. Historically, the Council had made £96 million in savings since 2017 but now it was at risk of statutory failures for services if there was no Council tax increase. If social care increases continue then it would be very difficult to balance the budget. The Chair said that he supported the proposed 25% tax increase in 2023 but opposition parties voted against it. He did not want leisure centres to close as for some this was the only place they socialised and people would miss the other services that the Council provided e.g. the roads and street lighting. Residents would miss these services more than paying a bit more tax. In response Councillor Dennison, the Director of Resources clarified that this was in ‘deep red’ because the election team was very small and there was a Police and Crime Commissioner election imminent and a general election was due in the next 12 months. Councillor Huw Murphy noted that the airport cost the Council a lot of money but could not see this referenced in the report. Pembrokeshire also increased the second home council tax rate unlike Ceredigion or Carmarthenshire. The highest earners on the higher Council tax bands should pay more but the lower earners should not. Councillor Cormack said that the council tax premiums would be used in the short term to resolve the base budget. When things improve tax premiums could go back to lower levels. The Director of Resources added that the airport was in the 2023/24 financial report which was why it was not in the 2024/25 report. Work was ongoing to make the airport cost neutral. Councillor Murphy stated that £238,000 was put into the airport of which only £90,000 was subsidised. Therefore, the airport should be considered for closing. Councillor Cormack noted that discussions on the airport were ongoing and this could be discussed in the budget seminar. In response to Councillor Jordan Ryan, Councillor Cormack agreed to find out if there were any savings made from closing refuse sites in winter. In response to a question from Councillor Dennison regarding event budget support, Councillor Cormack stated that Ironman was financially supported as part of a five year contract but this will end soon. He will find out how much is in the event budget support. Councillor Bethan Price noted that she was supposed to see toilets ‘in the red’ as they were being dealt with separately. Councillor Cormack stated that these were additional savings for public toilets and these will be covered at the budget seminar. Councillor Thomas queried if the finance team looked into what Pembrokeshire offered compared to other authorities so residents knew what their tax increases were for. Councillor Cormack said that anecdotally people driving in the county praised the condition of the roads but this would be fully addressed in the budget seminar. Councillor James noted that the 15% council tax increase could push families into poverty and some people could be affected mentally with residents stressing that they would need to pay more. Councillor Cormack stated that a 15% increase would be an extra £3.86 for someone in a tax band D property and £3 for someone in a tax band B. Residents were reliant on services and these would be cut if the tax rate did not increase. Welsh Government was looking at reforming tax increases so it would be less regressive i.e. the higher percentage the resident pays off on the property is the value for council tax. Welsh Government was looking at bringing in more tax bands and for the higher bands to pay more tax. He concluded that council tax was the only tool that the Council had to get money into the Council. Councillor Maureen Bowen said that her residents in Council houses were often waiting for things to be repaired and if these services were cut then this would impact her residents more than tax increases. Councillor Thomas noted that the housing revenue account had its own separate budget separate to the general fund. Councillor Cormack confirmed this and added that the general fund paid for non-housing related services. Councillor Dennison stated that the education budget was being cut by 2% and there was an increase in the charging for PLC placements. The Director of Education clarified that the PLC placement charge had not increased since 2015 and they needed to be increased to be in line with the costs created by the placements. Schools were relatively supportive of this increase. Councillor Cormack added that the Chief Executive scrutinised every area of the budget proposal, especially education. RESOLVED That the Outline Draft County Council Budget for 2024-25, the Outline Draft MTFP for 2024-25 to 2027-28 and the Provisional Local Government Settlement for 2024-25 be noted and its comments presented to Cabinet.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the updates from the Poverty Working Group be noted.
[Councillor Murphy left the meeting at this juncture at 11:15] The Committee considered a report by the Head of Children’s Services on the Poverty Strategy. The Chair welcomed Councillor Tessa Hodgson, the relevant Cabinet Member with responsibility for Safeguarding and Social Care, the Head of Children’s Services and Councillor Neil Prior, the relevant Cabinet Member with the responsibility for Corporate Improvement & Communities who outlined the key points of the report and welcomed questions from Members. The Committee debated the contents of the report and the key points were highlighted as follows: Councillor Tessa Hodgson reminded the committee that there was a Poverty Summit on the 14th February 2024 at Pembrokeshire College. Councillor Davies noted that poverty badly affected some areas of Pembrokeshire and she queried how things should be done with ‘vigour’. The Head of Children’s Services said that funding had been obtained to do a project on people living in poverty in Pembrokeshire and this will include video resources that will be presented at the summit. Councillor Viv Stoddart noted that the report said that in 2021 extra support payments were given to some families and this lifted some families over the poverty line. The Head of Children’s Services stated that this helped in the short term to help pay for some bills but it did not address the long term issue or cause of poverty. In response to Councillor Ryan, the Head of Children’s Services said that he would check whether town and community councillors had been invited but people from the private, public and third sectors had already been invited. 100 people had confirmed their attendance so far. Councillor Thomas questioned the data as it was from 2021 and they needed to make sure up to date data was recorded to show the issue correctly. He added that Audit Wales stated that social housing intake had increased and homelessness had decreased which was not was what was being told. How poverty was being resolved by the Council needed to be scrutinised so it could be done better. Councillor Hodgson concurred that poverty was an ongoing issue so it was difficult to timeline then. She said that anecdotally poverty had got worse since 2019/20 because of the cost of living crisis and energy cost inflation. The Head of Children’s Services stated that they receive data from Audit Wales when it is old and it covers a 12 month period. The data will never be static and they will develop the action plan and strategy annually. At the Poverty Summit, people of affluence and responsibility will be asked to take action against poverty. Councillor Dennison noted that in Scotland the extra money provided for rent was payed to landlord directly which reduced the debt for universal credit. He queried if child poverty increased when this scheme ended. Councillor Ryan stated that England and Wales could not do the same scheme as Scotland due to different benefit rules. In response to Councillor James, the Head of Children’s Services stated that unpaid carers were not going to be covered the summit but local support agencies and charities were being invited and some of them should support unpaid carers. Councillor Prior stated that the PSB (public service board) was the right place for the poverty strategy to be as it was a statutory organisation but it had no funding of its own. It set was currently focusing on three elements: poverty, strengthening communities and climate. The plan the PSB published included the poverty strategy and it was important to show that poverty was being actioned. Councillor Davies queried if the PSB was addressing the root cause of poverty. The Head of Children’s Services noted that people living in poverty were affected disproportionately by climate change so houses were being upgraded so they would become more energy efficient. Children and parents were taught the importance of education to try and break out of poverty that way. However, they were limited by what they could do locally due to national issues. Councillor Prior stated that Welsh Government were interested in Pembrokeshire’s poverty strategy approach and Pembrokeshire had an input in the Welsh Community Strategy. Councillor Davies highlighted the need for jobs to be created for young people to keep them out of poverty. Councillor Hodgson stated that Welsh Government had published their child poverty strategy that highlighted the importance of education to get a good job so they could get out of poverty. The Recommendation was Moved by Councillor Joshua Beynon; Seconded by Councillor Pat Davies. The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the updates from the Poverty Working Group be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the Draft Strategic Equality Plan 2024-28 and that its comments be presented to Cabinet in March 2024, along with the results of the consultation on the document.
The Committee considered a report by the Director of Education on the Strategic Equality Plan. The Chair welcomed the Director of Education, the Corporate Planning Manager and the Corporate Policy & Research Officer who outlined the key points of the report and welcomed questions from Members. The Committee debated the contents of the report and the key points were highlighted as follows: In response to a question from Councillor Dennison on Sport Pembrokeshire, the Director of Education stated that they had been asked to make cuts but there were protected characteristics around sport. Councillor Thomas expressed his concern that the report did not capture the amount of Welsh speakers in Pembrokeshire as the number was declining. The Director of Education clarified that the Welsh language was not a protected characteristics in the Equality Act but it was in the Standards Act. Councillor James noted that it was important to keep the Welsh culture and language as strong as possible and more people should be encouraged to speak Welsh as much as possible. The Director of Education said that Cymraeg 2050 strategy was referenced in the Strategy. Pembrokeshire’s Welsh language provision was monitored against two national indicators which recorded Welsh proficiency. There were oppurtunities for Council workers to learn Welsh through the Council’s link with national Welsh language centres including Mentrau Iaith. Councillor Bowen stated that attitudes to violence needed to challenged and shown to people at a young age to show that domestic abuse is wrong and needs to be addressed. The Recommendation was Moved by Councillor Joshua Beynon; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison. The vote, undertaken by way of a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the Draft Strategic Equality Plan 2024-28 and that its comments be presented to Cabinet in March 2024, along with the results of the consultation on the document.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Future Workforce Plan be endorsed.
The Committee considered a report by the Head of HR on the Future Workforce Plan. The Chair welcomed Councillor Prior and the Chief HR Officer to the meeting who outlined the key points of the report and welcomed questions from Members. The Committee debated the contents of the report and the key points were highlighted as follows: The Chair noted that some teams had the ability to work from home but others did not and this could have affected retention in some areas. The Chief HR Officer concurred with this and said that they were trying to address this through a hybrid working policy for front line staff. Hybrid working was the most popular way of working with staff. Councillor Dennison noted the difficulty in retaining some front line staff e.g. social workers and that it was easy to retain others. It costed money to hire staff and some would not stay for long The Chief HR Officer stated that there was a high turnover of social workers because it was an emotionally draining job and people would often have to move far away from their families to come to Pembrokeshire. It was important for physical team get together to happen in order to build the rapport. She concluded that the Council missed opportunities to train up new staff to fill in posts that were frequently vacated. Councillor Thomas expressed his concern with the high amount of staff being off ill due to mental health issues and queried what was being done to resolve this. He also noted that the report did not include Welsh language speaking staff members. The Chief HR Officer confirmed that 50% on staff absences was due to mental health and the threat of redundancies would inevitably aggravate this. To mitigate this they plan to fully engage with and be open with staff who were at risk or will be made redundant. A report on the amount of Welsh speakers in the Council could have been included in the report as this was done separately. In response to a question from Councillor Thomas on Covid-19, the Chief HR Officer stated that Covid-19 was amalgamated into being listed as any other and testing for it was uncommon unless the staff worked with vulnerable people. The Recommendation was Moved by Councillor Joshua Beynon; Seconded by Councillor Aled Thomas. The vote, undertaken by way of a roll-call, was carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion – Councillors Joshua Beynon, Aled Thomas, Maureen Bowen, Pat Davies, Alan Dennison, Mike James, Jordan Ryan, Vivien Stoddart, Michele Wiggins and Michael Williams, Steve Yelland [11] There were no votes against or abstaining from the motion. [Councillor Bethan Price was missed from the roll-call but present in the meeting] RESOLVED That the Future Workforce Plan be endorsed.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Pay Policy Statement 2024-25 and its comments be noted for Council for approval on 7th March 2024.
The Committee considered a report by the Head of HR on the Pay Policy Statement. The Chair welcomed Councillor Prior and the Chief HR Officer to the meeting who outlined the key points of the report and welcomed questions from Members. The Committee debated the contents of the report and the key points were highlighted as follows: In response to Councillor Dennison, the Chief HR Officer clarified that the car lease agreement scheme was for chief officers only and it cost £115,000 annually for the 19 chief officers. This was part of the benefits package for senior officers. Councillor Thomas queried if this was an optional stipend that could be used as a bonus or if the chief officer must lease a car for the full amount they are given. He questioned whether this scheme could be dropped going forward as part of the cuts that needed to be made. The Chief HR Officer noted that scrapping the scheme was an option and this scheme would need to be decided on by the Senior Staff Committee. Councillor Prior added that senior staff worked long hours with budget cuts so this reward scheme could help with retention. Councillor Thomas queried the uplift salary for the returning officer role. The Chief HR Officer stated that this was not included in the Pay Policy Statement as it was a separate contractual agreement. Anyone can view remuneration paid to the CEO annually as part of the Statement of Accounts. Councillor Dennison noted that residents on low wages who were expected to pay higher taxes would have expected this benefit to be scrutinised. The Recommendation was Moved by Councillor Joshua Beynon; Seconded by Councillor Pat Davies. The vote, undertaken by way of a roll-call, was carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the motion – Joshua Beynon, Bethan Price, Vivien Stoddart, Pat Davies, Steve Yelland, Michele Wiggins, Maureen Bowen, Jordan Ryan, Mike James and Michael Williams [10] Abstaining – Aled Thomas and Alan Dennison [2] There were no votes against the motion. RESOLVED That the Pay Policy Statement 2024-25 and its comments be noted for Council for approval on 7th March 2024.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That Cabinet be recommended to determine whether money made from County Farm land sales remains within the County Farm Portfolio.
The Committee considered a report by the County Farms Working Group on the Disposal of County Land. The Chair welcomed Councillor Thomas as Chair of the County Farms Working Group to the meeting who outlined the key points of the report and welcomed questions from Members. The Committee debated the contents of the report and the key points were highlighted as follows: Councillor Thomas noted that most people who sat on the County Farms Working Group also sat on the Overview and Scrutiny Committee and this item was referred to the Committee because the Working Group itself is unable to make recommendations. In the meeting the Group were keen for money made from the sales of county farm land to remain within the portfolio. Councillor James stated that there was a lot of work to be done within the county farms remit and that he was happy to second the proposal. The Director of Resources noted that historically any sale of Council property had been put into a specific reserve used to fund a capitalisation directive for redundant staff. He had been able to capitalise on these costs so they were not affected by the revenue budget. This directive could only be funded by the capital receipts that the sale of Council land generated. If the proposed motion was approved this was not be possible to fund anymore. A Motion was Moved by Councillor Aled Thomas; Seconded by Councillor Mike James. The Motion read: That Cabinet agree that any money generated from the sale from County Farms will be ring-fenced to remain within the County Farms Portfolio. Councillor Thomas clarified that Cabinet would need to make the final decision on this recommendation. Councillor Dennison queried what the predicted spend was from the County Farms over the next few years. He added that the sale of the land would be good if it went towards building houses and not questionable projects. Councillor Stoddart stated that she did not support the proposal for the reasons stated by the Director of Resources. The Chair stated that he was happy for Cabinet to debate but did not want to force them to support it. Councillor Davies concurred with this but added that a lot of maintenance was needed on farm houses and there was not enough money to carry this out. Councillor Stoddart queried the transfer rates for County Farm tenants and queried if the County Farm Group would have the statistics to hand that showed how many new comers used the farms to get into farming. Councillor Thomas noted that a lot of new county farm tenants remained in farming and in March the Group will hear from the local Farming Unions. The motion’s purpose is not to increase the portfolio but instead to help with the building maintenance. He queried what the redundancy pot amount was. Councillor Dennison quiried the profits made and lost on the County Farms and whether the Council should consider selling the farms to the tenants of money was needed. An Amendment to the Motion was Moved by Councillor Joshua Beynon; Seconded by Councillor Pat Davies. The Amendment read: That Cabinet be recommended to determine whether money made from County Farm land sales remains within the County Farm Portfolio. The vote for the amendment, undertaken by way of a roll-call, was carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the motion – Joshua Beynon, Bethan Price, Vivien Stoddart, Pat Davies, Alan Dennison, Michele Wiggins, Maureen Bowen, Jordan Ryan, and Michael Williams [9] Abstaining – Aled Thomas, Steve Yelland and Mike James [3] The Amendment became the substantive Motion. The vote, undertaken by way of a roll-call, was carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the motion – Joshua Beynon, Aled Thomas, Vivien Stoddart, Pat Davies, Michele Wiggins, Steve Yelland, Maureen Bowen, Jordan Ryan, Mike James, Alan Dennison, Michael Williams and Bethan Price [12] RESOLVED That Cabinet be recommended to determine whether money made from County Farm land sales remains within the County Farm Portfolio.
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