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The decisions as the council's minutes record them. A plain-language summary follows once it has been written.
RESOLVED That the Haverfordwest Public Transport Interchange decision be returned to Cabinet and the necessary external funding should be guaranteed before further work continues.
Councillor Shon Rees declared a personal interest by virtue of owning Midway Coaches but advised that he had no financial interest or benefit in the proposal.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Haverfordwest Public Transport Interchange decision be returned to Cabinet and the necessary external funding should be guaranteed before further work continues.
The Committee considered a call-in submitted by Councillor Mark Carter, supported by Councillors Di Clements, David Howlett, David Bryan, Jonathan Grimes, Rhys Jordan, Aled Thomas, Aaron Carey, Danny Young, Steve Yelland and Andrew Edwards in relation to the following decision made by Cabinet on 9 January 2023: That the invitation and evaluation of tenders be approved and the subsequent award of a contract be delegated to the Director of Community Services as detailed in the report. Councillor Clements presented the reasons for the call-in noting that the project cost was approximately £8.2m and in the 2023-24 application, an additional £8.6m bid was being made. She stated that the Authority would not know if it was successful on this bid until October with anticipated slippage to 2024-25. It was noted that the Levelling-Up Fund bid had been unsuccessful and Councillor Clements questioned why and who had made the decision to commence with demolition of the multi-storey car park when the funding was not guaranteed. Councillor Clements highlighted the reasons for the Call-in as follows: · If the Authority fund the project, will they then go over the budget cap? · Why were the papers restricted at the meeting of Cabinet on 9 January 2023 when the funding is from the public purse and the land is owned by the Authority? · As Councillors, we have a duty to ensure our decision represent value for money to our constituents and this should return to Cabinet for guaranteed external funding. Councillor Paul Miller, the Cabinet Member for Place, the Region and Climate Change clarified that this project was just one in a jigsaw of projects for the regeneration aspirations for Haverfordwest. He stated that the cost of £8.2m was a figure for certain financial years and did not include the 2023-24 financial year. He further stated that there had been delays on consent notably with National Resource Wales (NRW) on the planning process. He further advised that the multi-storey car park had provided an income of approximately £180k per annum. Funding had already been secured for 90% of the costs incurred to date from Welsh Government and a bid for a further 90% of funding from Welsh Government had been made. The Cabinet Member further informed the Committee that the anticipated income from the car park would be approx. £400K pa with the next project to be the multi-storey car park in Tenby. In response to a question from Councillor Clements regarding the project spend of £8m on the website, the Cabinet Member advised the Committee that the approximate spend was £8.7m with 90% funded by Welsh Government. Councillor Aled Thomas highlighted that the Cabinet Member had stated that the cost would be met, by whatever means. If the project was to cost £18m, a £10m loan over 50 years would cost £38m with an annual payment of £600k. The Chair advised Members to be mindful of the need to go into public session if specific costings were to be discussed. Councillor Michael Stoddart questioned the need to go into private session, as he considered that the confidential reports did not contain any information relating to the financial or business affairs of any person. In response, the Head of Law and Governance advised that discussing the confidential figures could skew the tender process however, she stated that the debate could continue without discussing the figures. In response to a further query from Councillor Stoddart, the Head of Law and Governance advised that the person involved was the Authority. In response to concerns raised by Councillor Huw Murphy, the Chair advised that the Committee would continue the meeting in public. Councillor Andrew Edwards stated that, as a local business owner in Haverfordwest and following discussions with other local business owners, they could not understand the need for the new transportation interchange noting the decline in business within Haverfordwest and that they felt more needed to be done to promote businesses returning to Haverfordwest first. The Cabinet Member reassured Members that the interchange would provide charging points for electric vehicles in every parking bay following an upgrade to the grid capacity together with secure storage and charging points for electric bikes. It was recognised by Councillor Thomas Tudor that Haverfordwest had suffered a downward spiral, exacerbated by the Covid Pandemic and that the interchange would revitalise the area and the investment would provide much needed support for the area. He stated that the multi-storey as it stood was not fit for purpose with poor lighting and an anti-social behaviour hotspot. Councillor Clements reiterated that, the need for the interchange was agreed but not ‘at any cost’. Councillor Clements Moved that the matter be referred back to Cabinet and any necessary external funding be guaranteed before further work continues; Seconded by Councillor Huw Murphy. The Cabinet Member acknowledged the point but stated that it was not a perfect world and explained that grant funding was allocated in cycles and, as such, it was not always known what the outcome of a bid would be. He further stated that any delay would cause longer term disruption to Haverfordwest and cost more in the long run. He assured Members that if grant funding was not secured, parking income would cover the borrowing costs. In response to a question from Councillor Jonathan Grimes, the Head of Infrastructure advised that if the Authority were unable to get tenders for the project, then the Authority could lose the grant. Councillor Jamie Adams sought clarification on the cost of building the car park and the cost of the interchange. The Head of Infrastructure confirmed that the last full year figures for income from the multi-storey were from 2018 and were £144,775. He stated that the Authority was considering increasing the cost of parking in all car parks and that this project was predominantly a transport interchange project interlinked with the car park. At the request of Councillor Adams, the Cabinet Member committed to endeavour to provide a full breakdown of the costs between the interchange and the car park within a couple of days of the meeting noting that Welsh Government had committed in excess of £6m to the scheme to date. On behalf of Councillor Alan Dennison, Councillor Michael Stoddart asked if consideration had been made to knock down the car park and turn it into a ground level car park until such time as the extent of the demand is ascertained and the funding is secured. As a non-Committee Member with approval from the Chair, Councillor Jacob Williams requested details of what the £8m that had already been spent on. In response, the Cabinet Member advised that the £8m was being used for professional fees, demolition, enabling and construction work. It was highlighted by Councillor Shon Rees that the main issue for the County remained in getting people into the town. He pointed out that the County could become a lead in climate change by investing in hydrogen buses and that improvements and regeneration within the town should be a priority before the interchange. The Cabinet Member emphasised the unprecedented investment that this Administration and the prior Administration had made to the town. Councillor Rhys Jordan highlighted concerns that Members would be voting on the budget and considering raising Council Tax and second home premium when the overall costs were still unknown. On a query regarding whether the matter could be referred to Council, the Head of Law and Governance advised that this was a Call-In of a tender decision which was within the Cabinet remit. If the decision today was to refer back to Cabinet with reasons, it would remain a Cabinet decision. Clarification was sought by Councillor Huw Murphy from the Cabinet Member regarding the investment to the rest of the County noting the amount that had already been invested in Haverfordwest. The Cabinet Member advised that the Administration was investing across the County including Pembroke, Fishguard and Goodwick being targeted. Councillor Tim Evans highlighted the new Castle project which signposted people to all different areas of Pembrokeshire. The Cabinet Member concluded that he was confident that the project was affordable and that any delay would increase costs. Any income from the car parking estate had to be spent on parking and transportation purposes and could not be used for Education or Social Care due to legislation. Were any estimates exceeded, he stated that a further debate would be required by Cabinet. Proposed by Councillor Di Clements; Seconded by Councillor Huw Murphy The vote, undertaken by way of a roll-call was carried. The votes were recorded as follows: For the Motion: Councillors Mark Carter, Di Clements, Jamie Adams, Rhys Jordan, Huw Murphy, Shon Rees, Viv Stoddart, Chris Williams and Michael Stoddart [9]. Against: Councillors Steve Alderman, Tim Evans, Thomas Tudor and Tony Wilcox [4]. There were no Abstentions. RESOLVED That the Haverfordwest Public Transport Interchange decision be returned to Cabinet and the necessary external funding should be guaranteed before further work continues.
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