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The decisions as the council's minutes record them. A plain-language summary follows once it has been written.
RESOLVED (a) That the Forward Work Programme, as set out in the report, be approved with the addition of an item on the Outline Draft County Council Budget 2024-25 and Outline Draft Medium Term Financial Plan (MTFP) 2024-25 to 2027-28 and removal of an item to scrutinise one of the nine Corporate Service Areas, which fall under the remit of the Committee, for the next meeting. (b) That an informal session be arranged in the New Year to review the Committee’s work undertaken in the past two years and to further consider the Forward Work Programme for the next 12 months to ensure the programme of scrutiny reflects Members’ priorities and to discuss any additional topics Members may want to scrutinise. [Councillor Aaron Carey joined the meeting at this juncture]
RESOLVED a) That the Committee scrutinised the County Council’s Budget Quarter 2 Monitoring Report for 2023-24. b) That the Committee submit a request to the Schools and Learning Overview and Scrutiny Committee requesting a review of school budgets for 2023-24. c) That the Committee submit a request to the Social Care Overview and Scrutiny Committee requesting a review of joint working arrangements between the County Council and Hywel Dda University Health Board regarding Children’s Out of County Placements.
RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the County Council’s Methodology to Assess the Longer Term Affordability and Sustainability of the Capital Programme and noted the information provided on specific capital projects.
RESOLVED That the report be noted.
RESOLVED a) That the Minutes of meetings of the Swansea Bay City Region Joint Committee held on 11 May, 27 July and 12 October 2023, respectively and the South West Wales Corporate Joint Committee held on 6 June 2023 be noted. b) That the Assistant Chief Executive be asked to send a letter on behalf of the Committee Chair, to the City and County of Swansea, the host Authority for the Swansea Bay City Region Joint Committee, to clarify the constitutional arrangements in respect of quorum for each of the four Member Authorities.
Apologies for absence were received from Councillors Simon Hancock and Bethan Price.
There were no declarations made at this point in the meeting.
A correction was requested by Councillor Jonathan Grimes, referring to a duplicate entry for Councillor Thomas Tudor in the list of remote attendees. Councillor Tudor confirmed that he had submitted his apologies prior to the meeting. Moved by Councillor Jonathan Grimes; Seconded by Councillor Mike James. The vote, by way of show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Minutes of the Meeting held on 12 September 2023 be approved as a correct record, in both English and Welsh, subject to the above amendment.
The Chair stated that no public submissions or items of correspondence had been received for this meeting.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED (a) That the Forward Work Programme, as set out in the report, be approved with the addition of an item on the Outline Draft County Council Budget 2024-25 and Outline Draft Medium Term Financial Plan (MTFP) 2024-25 to 2027-28 and removal of an item to scrutinise one of the nine Corporate Service Areas, which fall under the remit of the Committee, for the next meeting. (b) That an informal session be arranged in the New Year to review the Committee’s work undertaken in the past two years and to further consider the Forward Work Programme for the next 12 months to ensure the programme of scrutiny reflects Members’ priorities and to discuss any additional topics Members may want to scrutinise. [Councillor Aaron Carey joined the meeting at this juncture]
The Chair outlined the items scheduled for the January 2024 meeting and expressed concern that the Outline Draft County Council Budget 2024-25 and Outline Draft Medium Term Financial Plan (MTFP) 2024-25 to 2027-28 had been removed from the Forward Work Programme. He stated he had raised the matter outside of the meeting and was informed that the draft budget and proposed Council Tax levels for 2023-24 would be presented for scrutiny at the Policy and Pre-decision Overview and Scrutiny Committee only in January. He reminded Members that one of the responsibilities of the Corporate Overview and Scrutiny Committee was financial and budgetary oversight of the Cabinet and Council. Councillor Alec Cormack, Cabinet Member for Corporate Finance, understood the budget scrutiny process had changed to reflect the Council’s new Constitution, however, additionally offered to present the draft proposals to the Corporate Committee. The Head of Democratic Services advised that, given the Committee’s remit for budget monitoring and that the Cabinet Member was happy to present the information, she saw no issue with the draft budget coming before the Corporate Committee for scrutiny in January. Councillors Jonathan Grimes and Alan Dennison agreed with the Chair that the draft budget should be returned to the Forward Work Programme. The Chair then invited the Committee to consider which of the nine Corporate Service areas it would next like to examine and advised, while the Offices of the Leader and the Chief Executive were outstanding for scrutiny, the Agenda for the January meeting already appeared to be filling up. Councillor Mike James suggested that any Service area should not be looked at until after the budget announcement had been made. The Chair proposed to hold an informal session in the New Year to enable the Committee to review work undertaken in the past two years and to plan the Forward Work Programme for the next 12 months. Councillor Alan Dennison Moved the Recommendation; Seconded by Councillor Jonathan Grimes. The vote, by way of show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED (a) That the Forward Work Programme, as set out in the report, be approved with the addition of an item on the Outline Draft County Council Budget 2024-25 and Outline Draft Medium Term Financial Plan (MTFP) 2024-25 to 2027-28 and removal of an item to scrutinise one of the nine Corporate Service Areas, which fall under the remit of the Committee, for the next meeting. (b) That an informal session be arranged in the New Year to review the Committee’s work undertaken in the past two years and to further consider the Forward Work Programme for the next 12 months to ensure the programme of scrutiny reflects Members’ priorities and to discuss any additional topics Members may want to scrutinise. [Councillor Aaron Carey joined the meeting at this juncture]
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED a) That the Committee scrutinised the County Council’s Budget Quarter 2 Monitoring Report for 2023-24. b) That the Committee submit a request to the Schools and Learning Overview and Scrutiny Committee requesting a review of school budgets for 2023-24. c) That the Committee submit a request to the Social Care Overview and Scrutiny Committee requesting a review of joint working arrangements between the County Council and Hywel Dda University Health Board regarding Children’s Out of County Placements.
[During consideration of this item, Councillors Michael Williams, Alan Dennison, Mike James, Steve Alderman, Jonathan Grimes, Michael John and Alec Cormack, declared a personal interest by virtue of being active members of the Dyfed Pension Fund.] The Committee considered a report by the Deputy Chief Finance Officer on the Council’s position as at Quarter 2 of the 2023-24 financial year. The Cabinet Member for Corporate Finance introduced the report stating the approved net revenue expenditure budget for this year was £287.6m, which was approved by Cabinet on 6 November 2023. The Quarter 2 projected outturn for the year was £291.2m and represented a projected overspend of £3.6m, which was an ‘improved position’ to the £4.8m projected overspend reported at Quarter 1. He highlighted that this was an improvement on the position reported in Quarter 1. Councillor Cormack stated that inflation had stabilised, but continued to be around 2.1% higher than the previous projections from the Office for Budget Responsibility. He stated that the UK Government had pledged that inflation would be 5% or below by the end of the year. Councillor Cormack then referred to the projected outturn at Quarter 2, increased level of demand in regards to School and Social Care services, additional budget pressures, slippage in the Capital Programme, a moratorium on all non-essential expenditure, as well as the commentary from the Director of Resources, as outlined in the report. Councillor Cormack stated that the financial challenge for 2024-25, and throughout the Medium Term Financial Plan, would potentially be the greatest challenge ever faced by the Council. He highlighted that some extremely hard decisions would need to be made, and in order to balance the budget and ensure financial sustainability for 2024-25 and beyond, it was suggested that the Council would need to move its Band D Council Tax level to at least the average in Wales, whilst also making significant budget savings across virtually all Council services. The Committee then debated the report’s contents and the key points were highlighted as follows: · Councillor Mike James sought clarification on joint working arrangements that might be in place with the Hywel Dda University Health Board as he felt some services were being covered by the Council that could come under the Health Board’s portfolio. He was also concerned about the additional pressures faced by schools at a time when the Council had less money to support budgets. The Cabinet Member gave the example of ‘Project Nightingale’ to illustrate joint working between the Council and the Health Board. On the reality of school budgets, Councillor Cormack explained schools had built up high levels of reserves during COVID-19, however had seen those balances become ‘significantly depleted’ and forecast would ‘virtually be wiped out’ by next year. · Referring to Section 3.3 (a) in the Appendix of her report, the Deputy Chief Finance Officer confirmed that schools had spent £4.4m of their reserves to cover costs in 2023-24. Some schools may have to reduce additional staff when their reserves decrease and for those schools that could not make savings, she added the likelihood was that they would go into deficit in the next financial year. She warned that all services were going to have to take some part of the cuts for next year to be able to balance the Council’s budget. · As a governor at two schools, the Cabinet Member revealed he had advised both governing bodies not to use their reserves and not to spend more than the income they currently receive. · The Chair, disclosing that he was also a School Governor and Chair of a Finance Committee, made reference to the table on page 38 of the Officer’s report that showed five schools had a deficit balance in 2022-23 that had increased to nine in 2023-24 and predicted the figure would rise further. Commenting on page 39, specifically ‘to meet the continued budget challenge, it is anticipated that there will be a number of school staffing restructures in 2023-24 in preparation for the 2024-25 financial year’, the Chair argued that ‘only so many staff could be cut’. He feared ‘schools were going bankrupt more or less’. · In response, Councillor Cormack clarified what would happen if a school was not setting a balanced budget. He pointed to regulations that would allow the Council to take over the financial management of the school, however, admitted there was no resourcing within the financial team to actually do that in practice. He announced that the Council’s Chief Executive would be meeting with headteachers and chairs of governing bodies in the coming weeks to urge them to prepare for significant budget cuts next year. · The Chair then questioned why these meetings were not open to the chairs of school financial committees, to which the Cabinet Member requested the Deputy Chief Finance Officer raise this with the Chief Executive. · Councillor Thomas Tudor, making reference to page 38 of the report and to three more children requiring Out of County placements during Quarter 2 that added a further £1.182m projected overspend to the Out of County budget, asked what could be done to improve the service and reduce the overspend. The Cabinet Member updated Members on the opening of the Council’s West Lodge Children’s Residential Home funded from the Initiative Fund to reduce dependence on Out of County placements and hinted that the Chief Executive was considering the possibility of opening up additional facilities. · In connection with schools running deficit budgets, Councillor Michael Williams enquired what the legal situation would be. The Deputy Chief Finance Officer replied if a school was going, or was projected to go into, deficit in the next financial year, the school would enter into a Licensed Deficit Agreement. The school would need to specify the actions it proposed to take to recover over the next three to four years in a Recovery Plan. If a school did not have a clear plan of recovery, the Deputy Chief Finance Officer went on to say that the Authority could step in and take over the running of their finances, but currently there was no capacity within her department to do so. · Councillor Alan Dennison queried whether the Council had transferred funds into the Dyfed Pension Fund’s reserves as the scheme was now in surplus at 113%. He wondered whether the defined benefit pension scheme for elected Members should move to a defined contribution scheme in order to save funds. The Deputy Chief Finance Officer responded that the amount the Council’s pays into the scheme is set by the Dyfed Pension Fund and was not something the Authority had control over. Councillor Cormack reaffirmed that salaries and pensions were negotiated across Wales and seemed unlikely to change for Councillors, as pensions were a ‘fundamental part of employee benefits packages’. · As a Member of Pembroke Town Council, Councillor Jonathan Grimes commented he had been invited to a meeting to set the precept and wanted to know whether any measures or caps had been put in place to restrict spending by Community and Town Councils. The Cabinet Member advised that Community and Town Councils could ask for any amount through the precept, which would be collected by the County Council and passed on to the local council. · In answer to a further question from Councillor Grimes with regard to Business Rates and housing rents arrears, the Cabinet Member confirmed additional resources for debt collection were one of the Accelerated Change Programme items financed from the Initiative Fund. Councillor Mike James Moved the recommendation within the report, with the addition that the referrals below be made to the Schools and Learning and Social Care Overview and Scrutiny Committees; Seconded by Councillor Alan Dennison. The vote, undertaken by a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED a) That the Committee scrutinised the County Council’s Budget Quarter 2 Monitoring Report for 2023-24. b) That the Committee submit a request to the Schools and Learning Overview and Scrutiny Committee requesting a review of school budgets for 2023-24. c) That the Committee submit a request to the Social Care Overview and Scrutiny Committee requesting a review of joint working arrangements between the County Council and Hywel Dda University Health Board regarding Children’s Out of County Placements.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the County Council’s Methodology to Assess the Longer Term Affordability and Sustainability of the Capital Programme and noted the information provided on specific capital projects.
The Committee had before it a report from the Director of Resources and the Deputy Chief Finance Officer, which outlineda revised methodology for calculating the annual Capital Financing costs cap, and to provide assurance on the longer term affordability and sustainability of the Capital Programme. The Cabinet Member for Corporate Finance introduced the report stating that this was a critical decision due to the fact that the higher the Annual Capital Financing costs, the less Revenue Funding would be available to the Council to provide all other services. He highlighted that by reflecting on the benefits derived from the current Capital Programme, he highlighted the continued investment in School buildings would not only improve the condition and suitability of the Education estate, but would also provide sustainable learning environments. He also referred to the Eco Park enhancing the recycling function and the regeneration of town centres, which would continue to drive economic development in Pembrokeshire. Councillor Cormack added that future Revenue savings generated from Capital investments, such as reduced running costs, would also have a positive impact on the Revenue Budget. He then referred to the challenges of high inflation and high interest rates at a time when financial resources are scarce. Subject to affordability, the Budget Strategy for 2023-24 and beyond increases the capital financing cap by CPI inflation of the previous September. Under this mechanism, the cap was increased from £14.51m to £15.98m per annum for 2023-24 at the December 2022 Cabinet. Councillor Cormack stated that the future methodology needed to ensure the longer term affordability and sustainability of the Capital Programme, and would need to be determined in the context of the Council’s financial sustainability over the Medium Term Financial Plan and beyond. He then highlighted the three options, as outlined in the report, and stated his support for Option 3, which was approved by Cabinet on 6 November 2023. The Chair then opened up discussion of the report and the key points were noted as follows: • On the plans for a new school in Milford Haven, Councillor Alan Dennison requested whether the reported figures had taken account of capital borrowing, to which the Cabinet Member verified they had, along with other items that were expected to shortly join the agreed Capital Programme. The Deputy Chief Finance Officer advised financial modelling had included additional borrowing but was not earmarked to any specific scheme. In addition, it was reinforced that all new projects needed to adhere to the capital bid process and governance arrangements within the approved capital strategy. • Councillor Jonathan Grimes voiced concerns about the public perception of spending on capital projects at a time when the Council was looking to potentially raise Council Tax quite significantly. Councillor Cormack emphasised that the benefits of school investment were there to be seen and about a third of the County’s children would go through Milford Haven schools. Ultimately, he asserted, the matter would be a decision for Full Council in December and hoped there would be support from across the Chamber. • Turning to the redevelopment project in Haverfordwest, Councillor Dennison queried whether there had been an increase in the original stated costs, to which the Deputy Leader, Cabinet Member for Place, the Region and Climate Change pointed out that Cabinet had been kept informed of the progress of projects and the budget amendments associated with them, and all of that information was in the public domain. Councillor Michael John Moved the Recommendation; Seconded by Councillor Jonathan Grimes. The vote, undertaken by a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the Committee scrutinised the County Council’s Methodology to Assess the Longer Term Affordability and Sustainability of the Capital Programme and noted the information provided on specific capital projects.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED That the report be noted.
Councillor Neil Prior, Cabinet Member with responsibility for Corporate Improvement and Communities introduced a report by the Electoral Services Manager before she presented it toCommittee. Her report provided an update on the work of the Electoral Services’ team in four specific areas, which included electoral registration, the administration of elections, ongoing reviews and elector and stakeholder engagement. Members discussed the report and raised points relating to: · The introduction of the requirement for voters at polling stations to show photographic ID · The near completion of the annual canvass · Participation of young people in events held at the Council Chamber to mark Local Democracy Week and UK Parliament Week · Ongoing reviews including the Council’s assessment of polling district, polling places and polling stations, the Local Democracy and Boundary Commission for Wales’ Community Review of the Pembrokeshire Principal Council area and the Parliamentary Boundary Review. · New restrictions on the handling of postal votes. Councillor Alan Dennison Moved the Recommendation; Seconded by Councillor Aaron Carey. The vote, undertaken by a show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED That the report be noted.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED a) That the Minutes of meetings of the Swansea Bay City Region Joint Committee held on 11 May, 27 July and 12 October 2023, respectively and the South West Wales Corporate Joint Committee held on 6 June 2023 be noted. b) That the Assistant Chief Executive be asked to send a letter on behalf of the Committee Chair, to the City and County of Swansea, the host Authority for the Swansea Bay City Region Joint Committee, to clarify the constitutional arrangements in respect of quorum for each of the four Member Authorities.
The Chair presented the Minutes of recent meetings held by the Swansea Bay City Region Joint Committee and the South West Wales Corporate Joint Committee. In doing so, he questioned whether some meetings of the Swansea Bay City Region Joint Committee had been quorate when the appointed County Council Member could not attend. The Assistant Chief Executive confirmed meetings of the Swansea Bay City Region Joint Committee went ahead, however, coincided with Full Council meetings of the County Council. He stated the Leader had raised the matter with the Leader of the City and County of Swansea that has oversight functions in relation to these meetings. The Assistant Chief Executive offered to write, on behalf of the Chair of the Corporate Overview and Scrutiny Committee, to the host Authority to clarify quorum arrangements of the Swansea Bay City Region Joint Committee. Councillor Jonathan Grimes Moved the recommendation within the report, with the addition that the Assistant Chief Executive be asked to send a letter to the City and County of Swansea following on from the Committee discussions; Seconded by CouncillorThomas Tudor. The vote, undertaken by way of show of hands, was carried. RESOLVED a) That the Minutes of meetings of the Swansea Bay City Region Joint Committee held on 11 May, 27 July and 12 October 2023, respectively and the South West Wales Corporate Joint Committee held on 6 June 2023 be noted. b) That the Assistant Chief Executive be asked to send a letter on behalf of the Committee Chair, to the City and County of Swansea, the host Authority for the Swansea Bay City Region Joint Committee, to clarify the constitutional arrangements in respect of quorum for each of the four Member Authorities.
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