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Present Applicant: Alan Leahman (Club Secretary, Old Illtydians RFC) Louise Bladen (Stewardess, Old Illtydians RFC) Ward Councillor: Grace Ferguson-Thorne Local resident: Zach Scott (remote) The Application An application to vary a Club Premises Certificate had been received from Old Illtydians RFC in respect of Old Illtydians RFC, 1-3 Splott Road, Splott, Cardiff, CF24 1HA. The certificate currently permits the following licensable activity: The supply of alcohol to members and guests of members for consumption on the premises: i) Monday to Saturday: 11:00 to 23:00 hours ii) Sunday: 12:00 to 22:30 hours iii) Good Friday: 12:00 to 22:30 hours iv) Christmas Day: 12:00 to 15:00 hours & 19:00 to 22:30 hours v) New Years Eve: until the start of permitted hours on New Years Day The applicant has applied for the following: The supply of alcohol to members and guests of members for consumption on the premises: i) Monday to Thursday 11:00 to 00:00 hours ii) Friday to Sunday: 11:00 to 01:00 hours iii) New Years Eve: an additional hour The provision of regulated entertainment in the form of live music (indoors) and recorded music (indoors): i) Monday to Sunday: 12:00 to 23:45 hours ii) New Years Eve: an additional hour Opening hours: i) Monday to Thursday 11:00 to 00:00 hours ii) Friday to Sunday: 11:00 to 01:00 hours iii) New Years Eve: an additional hour To amend the plan attached to the certificate to vary the layout of the ground floor to include an external area / beer garden as part of the premises. Applicant’s representation Speaking to the Subcommittee, the Applicant Mr Leahman stated that the Club had fallen behind other establishments in only being able to serve alcohol until 23:00. Its licensed hours are old-fashioned and the Club has suffered as a consequence. It has gained new members as a result of other establishments in the area closing; these other establishments were licensed to sere alcohol until 24:00. The Applicant was advised by officers from the Licensing Authority that he could apply for longer hours; the purpose for the application was to bring the Club into line with other establishments. Questions for Applicant: Members enquired about the Applicant’s refusal to provide officers pursuing a complaint with CCTV images. The Applicant explained that at the time the officer asked him, he had said he would agree but would have to ask staff members who were at the Club at the time of the complaint. Since then he has told officers that he would provide the images. The Applicant explained that there are 22 CCTV cameras at the Club, including 4 in the downstairs bar, 4 the upstairs bar and 4 outside. Every area is covered. There has been a considerable amount of trouble in the area and police often ask to see the Club’s CCTV footage. The Applicant referred to complaints having been received from the recently built flats opposite the Club, and stated that the Club had a track record over 10 years of not having any complaints against it. The Applicant explained that several establishments in the wider area had licences to serve alcohol until 01:00. He added that the Club had everything recommended by the Council in place. The Chair returned to the matter of officers requesting to see CCTV images and being refused until the Applicant had sought permission from members of staff. He asked the Applicant whether as a responsible licence holder he should not have made the images available. The Applicant responded that the officers had asked to see footage of specific times, and were given access to that footage. The officers have checked the footage and found there was nothing to the complaints. Members noted that the area had been described as a crime hotspot and asked the Applicant how they would meet the licensing objectives of preventing crime and disorder, promoting public safety and preventing nuisance. The Applicant stated that it was a members-only club, members have to be signed in and non-members are refused entry. The area has problems with shoplifting and drug taking, but the club has very strict policies with regard to drugs and stolen property. Members age on average between 50 and 80 years old so it is an old person’s club. The Applicant described some of the community activities the Club is involved in, including supporting mini-rugby for young people from the local area. Members enquired how the Applicant would ensure how personnel on the door would know who were club members and who should not be allowed to enter. The Applicant stated that the club had not previously needed a bouncer, although did provide doormen for private parties. Stewardess Louise Bladen’s husband would take on the role of SIA doorman, and Mr Leahman sought advice on whether he would need to be trained for the role and how he would go about getting licensed. Officers advised that their understanding was that someone carrying out the functions of an SIA doorman had to be licensed by the SIA. The Ward Councillor Cllr Ferguson-Thorne sought clarification on the management structure at the club and who was responsible for making decisions. The Applicant Mr Leahman advised that he and Ms Bladen were always responsible. Cllr Ferguson-Thorne asked how long Ms Bladen had worked at the Club. Ms Bladen stated that she had worked there since 2022 and been Stewardess since November 2023. Ward Councillor’s representation Cllr Ferguson-Thorne stated she had put in an objection following receipt of a number of complaints from residents regarding issues coming from the Club. The area is a challenging one, but the issue is about ensuring the Club is a considerate neighbour. The fact that the Club wishes to serve alcohol until 01:00 at weekends and 00:00 on weekdays seems very late for a residential area. There are few if any establishments nearby who serve alcohol to such hours. The Cllr stated there were complaints about noise and anti-social behaviour including urination and throwing glasses outside the premises. There were also complaints about lock-ins and loud music coming from the club until 03:00 or 04:00. The Cllr wished to encourage business but there had to be responsibility. The Cllr expressed concern about the Applicant not understanding the role of SIA doorman and the SIA doorman being Ms Bladen’s husband and needing training. She questioned how much authority he would have if members were misbehaving and wanted a lock-in. She asked what was to stop the Club purporting to close its doors and continue to have a lock-in without an SIA doorman there. She also expressed concern about Pollution Control saying that there could only be activity in the external area until 21:00; and then saying it could go on till 22:30. Questions to Ward Councillor: The Applicant asked Cllr Ferguson-Thorne how many complaints she had received, as he had spoken to officers in Licensing and been informed that they had received 7 complaints from 1 complainant, then another 22 complaints also from the same complainant. Cllr Ferguson-Thorne stated that there had been more than 1 complainant but it would not be prudent of her to identify them. She had encouraged them to put their complaints to the Licensing Department. The Applicant reiterated that according to the Licensing Department the complaints they had received had been from 1 complainant, and stated that the Club had complained about that individual to Taff Housing Association. Local Resident’s representation The Local Resident stated that he represented 5-6 other residents also living in the flats opposite the Club. While understanding it was a pub, he objected to the late nights and antisocial behaviour, including people speaking very loudly, urinating outside the property and throwing glasses. Questions to Local Resident: The Applicant Mr Leahman stated that he had had to make a complaint to Taff Housing Association regarding the Local Resident as on 3-4 occasions when staff had come to open up the premises, Mr Scott had verbally abused them. Summing Up The Ward Councillor repeated that her objection was to the lateness of the proposed hours in a residential area and the potential to disturb residents. The Applicant Mr Leahman stated that 17 clubs had closed in the area and there were only 3 left. The Club had been there for 95 years and the flats had been built alongside it. Only 1 person had complained to Cardiff Council and they had made 27 complaints. Mr Leahman stated that 12-14 residents of the flats had become members of the Club. Mr Leahman stated that when officers from the Council had come to look at the CCTV images, there had been music playing at full volume in the bar. One of the officers had gone to the other side of the road and had stated that they had not heard anything. Mr Leahman clarified that the Club would only serve alcohol in the garden until 21:00. Decision The Subcommittee considered the application on its individual merits and considered all the committee papers, the statutory guidance made under section 182 of the Licensing Act 2003, the Council’s Statement of Licensing Policy, as well as the oral representations made by the local resident and local ward member. The Subcommittee noted that South Wales Police, Environmental Health Pollution Control and the Licensing Authority initially objected to this application. However, their objections were withdrawn prior to the committee meeting as the applicant agreed their proposed conditions. In addition, the applicant has stated that they will cease the use of the external area at 21:00. The Subcommittee is satisfied that the external area ceasing at 21:00 will not undermine the licensing objectives. The Subcommittee feels that the proposal to sell alcohol until 01:00 hours on Sunday (going into Monday) would undermine the licensing objectives. After carefully considering all the information, the Subcommittee resolves to GRANT the application, subject to the conditions agreed with South Wales Police, Environmental Health Pollution Control, the Licensing Authority, and the use of the external areas ceasing at 21:00 hours. The Subcommittee also resolves to reduce the supply of alcohol on Sundays to 00:00 hours (midnight).
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