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The decisions as the council's minutes record them. A plain-language summary follows once it has been written.
RESOLVED that the application to extend the licensable hours for the sale of alcohol from 8am as opposed to 9am has been AGREED and the application to extend the licensable hours for the sale of alcohol from 11pm to 01.00am has been REFUSED. · Supply of Alcohol (Off Sales only) Monday to Sunday 08:00 – 23:00 The Sub-Committee considered the application, submitted by the Applicant and the grounds for applying for the licensing hours to be extended. The Applicant detailed grounds surrounding financial difficulty that the Applicant suffered following a change of premises to the Applicant’s current location. The Applicant was clear that they were seeking to extend the licensing hours in order to generate further finances and to gain a financial business edge against other off-licences in the premises area. The Applicant detailed they had CCTV in place, appropriate training for staff and sometimes sold alcohol at the premises door, if a customer was heavily intoxicated. The Licensing Manager presented his report to the Sub-Committee which detailed that Responsible Authorities, including Gwent Police, Environmental Health Pollution Team, Licencing Authority in its role as a responsible authority and Environmental Health, Health & Safety, who all raised concerns regarding the application to extend the licensable hours for the sale of alcohol until 01.00am. The concerns included the potential increase in anti-social behaviour and violence, given the close proximity of the premises to public houses, taxi ranks and the strong possibility of a significant number of intoxicated persons being drawn to the premises area. There was also concern for residents near to the Applicant’s premises should there be an increase to the licensable hours. All of the Responsible Authorities agreed that the Applicant had not offered any suggested conditions or mitigation in order to promote the licensing objectives in order to alleviate their concerns regarding the requested variation application. The Sub-Committee considered all of the representations made during the hearing and gave weight to the comments and concerns expressed by the Responsible Authorities. The Sub-Committee gave consideration to the licensing objectives detailed by legislation, the Home Office Section 182 Guidance and to the Council’s own statement of licensing policy and found that in respect of the variation between 11pm and 1am that the Applicant offered no solutions to the concerns raised by the Responsible Authorities regarding the likely impact that the variation would have. The Sub Committee also acknowledged the following sections of the council’s statement of licensing policy namely Sections 5.4, 5.5 and 5.7 in respect of applicant’s responsibilities when devising their operating schedules, appropriate trading hours and areas where there may be a concentration of problematic drinkers. The Sub-Committee considered the variation to allow alcohol to be sold between the hours of 8am and 9am and agreed that this variation would not require any alteration to the licence requirements and could be properly managed under the current licence conditions. The Sub-Committee did have concerns that the Applicant confirmed they are selling alcohol at the premises door and did not feel that a variation of the licensable hours from 11pm to 1am could properly be managed by the Applicant and the licensing objectives not be properly promoted. Any person aggrieved by this decision has 21 days from the date of written notification of the decision to appeal to the local Magistrates Court.
Apologies for absence were received from D. Pugh (Environmental Health Pollution Team) and PC J Taylor (Gwent Police).
There were no declarations of interest made at the beginning or during the course of the meeting.
Decision as recorded
RESOLVED that the application to extend the licensable hours for the sale of alcohol from 8am as opposed to 9am has been AGREED and the application to extend the licensable hours for the sale of alcohol from 11pm to 01.00am has been REFUSED. · Supply of Alcohol (Off Sales only) Monday to Sunday 08:00 – 23:00 The Sub-Committee considered the application, submitted by the Applicant and the grounds for applying for the licensing hours to be extended. The Applicant detailed grounds surrounding financial difficulty that the Applicant suffered following a change of premises to the Applicant’s current location. The Applicant was clear that they were seeking to extend the licensing hours in order to generate further finances and to gain a financial business edge against other off-licences in the premises area. The Applicant detailed they had CCTV in place, appropriate training for staff and sometimes sold alcohol at the premises door, if a customer was heavily intoxicated. The Licensing Manager presented his report to the Sub-Committee which detailed that Responsible Authorities, including Gwent Police, Environmental Health Pollution Team, Licencing Authority in its role as a responsible authority and Environmental Health, Health & Safety, who all raised concerns regarding the application to extend the licensable hours for the sale of alcohol until 01.00am. The concerns included the potential increase in anti-social behaviour and violence, given the close proximity of the premises to public houses, taxi ranks and the strong possibility of a significant number of intoxicated persons being drawn to the premises area. There was also concern for residents near to the Applicant’s premises should there be an increase to the licensable hours. All of the Responsible Authorities agreed that the Applicant had not offered any suggested conditions or mitigation in order to promote the licensing objectives in order to alleviate their concerns regarding the requested variation application. The Sub-Committee considered all of the representations made during the hearing and gave weight to the comments and concerns expressed by the Responsible Authorities. The Sub-Committee gave consideration to the licensing objectives detailed by legislation, the Home Office Section 182 Guidance and to the Council’s own statement of licensing policy and found that in respect of the variation between 11pm and 1am that the Applicant offered no solutions to the concerns raised by the Responsible Authorities regarding the likely impact that the variation would have. The Sub Committee also acknowledged the following sections of the council’s statement of licensing policy namely Sections 5.4, 5.5 and 5.7 in respect of applicant’s responsibilities when devising their operating schedules, appropriate trading hours and areas where there may be a concentration of problematic drinkers. The Sub-Committee considered the variation to allow alcohol to be sold between the hours of 8am and 9am and agreed that this variation would not require any alteration to the licence requirements and could be properly managed under the current licence conditions. The Sub-Committee did have concerns that the Applicant confirmed they are selling alcohol at the premises door and did not feel that a variation of the licensable hours from 11pm to 1am could properly be managed by the Applicant and the licensing objectives not be properly promoted. Any person aggrieved by this decision has 21 days from the date of written notification of the decision to appeal to the local Magistrates Court.
The Chairman opened the meeting and introductions were made. The Legal Advisor to the Sub-Committee outlined the procedure for the meeting and reported that Members had previously familiarised themselves with the report of the Licensing Officer, the application and plan of the premises together with the written submissions from the responsible authorities who were objecting to the application. The Licensing Manager presented the report and outlined the application submitted for a variation to the premises licence issued under the Licensing Act 2003 in respect of Shock Off Licence 1 Bartlett Street, Caerphilly CF83 1JS. The premise Licence holder and the applicant is Avkiran Company Ltd and Mr Esat Berkman is the Director of the Company. The application sought to permit the following Licensable Activities: · Supply of Alcohol (Off Sales only) Monday to Sunday inclusive, 08:00 – 01:00 The application sought to increase the sale of alcohol permitted times, this is an additional 1 hour in the morning and an extra 2 hours at night. The Licensing Manager referred to representations received in relation to the application from responsible authorities that were set out in paragraph 1.9 of the report, copies of which were attached to the report circulated with the agenda. Attention was drawn to the local policy considerations as set out in within the Licensing Officers report and to the way in which the Sub Committee should deal with the application. The Sub Committee were also referred to the recommendation set out in the report, which considered the position of the Responsible Authorities of the applicant’s ability to promote the Licensing Objectives (particularly the promotion of the Prevention of Public Nuisance Licensing Objective). Members were advised that the applicant had been appraised of the comments of the Responsible Authorities and responses to those comments which could be found on pages 63 to 65 of the report. The Chair thanked the Officer and all parties present, were invited to ask questions. There were no questions for the Licensing Manager and the Chair invited the applicant’s representative to make their representations. Members were advised that the applicant had requested the variation to their licence due to them having to relocate the business to 1 Bartlett Street from their previous premises at 18 Clive Street as the Council compulsory purchased it. Members were advised that they moved out of the premises at the end of 2023 and the move had taken a long time as they wanted to remain in Caerphilly. It had taken time to find a property and getting the business premises set up, there was compensation from the compulsory purchase and that had been spent on setting up the new premises, the business had suffered financially and the applicant were looking to recover some of the financial loss by seeking to vary the licence to open the premises for the additional hour in the morning and two hours in the evening. The Committee were advised that there are number of off licences open in the area and that established clients had been lost and this is adding to the financial struggles. The Applicant were aware of the Responsible Authorities concerns and confirmed that training had been completed as recommended and was fully up to date. The Chair thanked the representative and sought confirmation as to when the business started operating from 1 Bartlett Street. It was confirmed that the paperwork was signed for the new premises on the 2nd November 2023 and that they moved in on the 2nd April 2024. The Chair invited all parties present to ask questions. Clarification was sought by the Legal Advisor as to what financial losses the business had suffered. It was confirmed that the losses came from the length of time taken to set up the business, all of the compensation money had to be used to decorate and set up the new premises, the realisation that there were a number of off licence premises and loss of established customers, this had seen the business struggle and takings were low. The Legal Advisor referred to the additional hours that the business was seeking and asked if the applicant could confirm how busy they would expect the business to be. The Committee were advised that the current premises licence the business opens at 8am and then alcohol sales were from 9am, the applicant would be happy to have the same now, but the busiest time was in the evenings and closing at 11pm the business are rejecting customers as they have to close, and this was the reason the additional hours were being requested. The Chair wished to clarify that the applicant was no longer seeking to vary the licence to enable them to sell alcohol from 8am as originally requested. It was confirmed that following discussions the Applicants were happy to keep the current 9am sale of alcohol time. A Member noted that on page 10 of the report the applicant had not sought advice from the Local Authority prior to submitting their application and asked was there a reason they had not sought advice or guidance. The Committee were advised that the applicants were not aware of this and that they had made a mistake as they thought the advice could be sought after the application was submitted. The Chair queried whether opening until 1:00am was an excessive amount of hours to be open. The applicants stated that due to their financial situation they felt they had to open until 1:00am. The Chair expressed the concerns for the committee and all Responsible Authorities as whether or not the licensing objectives could be promoted effectively to that time and commented that other off licences within the area close from 7pm to 11pm. Responding to a query raised by a Member of the Sub Committee, the Applicants representative and the Applicant stated that there was an Off Licence in Lansbury Park that was selling alcohol from 8:00am until 1:00 Monday to Thursday, 8:00am until 1:20am Friday to Saturday and 8:00am to 1:00am on Sundays A Member commented that the distance between the current premises and the previous premises was a 3 to 4 minute walk for the regular customers to go to the shop and queried how the business was struggling now but it was not struggling in the previous premises. The Applicant stated that there were no other Off Licence premises in Clive Street but there are a few near the new premises. The Chair sought confirmation from the Licensing Manager as to whether or not the Off Licence Premise referred to by the Applicant in Lansbury Park had a licence to sell alcohol until 1:30am. The Licensing Manager confirmed that following the meeting he would need to investigate and identify the premises and check the permissions of their licence and whether planning permission was in place for the premises to be open at those times. An investigation would take place to determine whether the premises was open until those hours and whether or not alcohol was being served at those times. The Chair advised the applicant that their case was being dealt with entirely on its own merit. Following discussions the Chair invited representations from the Responsible Authorities. An Officer representing Gwent Police addressed the Sub Committee and outlined their representations which could be found within the Officers report. The Officer confirmed that Gwent Police’s objection to the extending the licensable hours of the premises those being from 11:00pm until 01:00 hours daily. Within the comments Gwent police concerns are on late licensed activity and the failure of the applicant to consider their application and potential detrimental effect on immediate area and their staff. Three years of historical antisocial behaviour and crime figures had been provided which had shown a dramatic reduction within the within the close location to the applicant premises. Concerns were raised about the possible increase of intoxicated people and would see an increase in crime and disorder and anti-social behaviour placing a significantly higher demand on police and other emergency services given the locality of the premises being close to residential properties, train station, taxi rank and near several public houses who have staff monitoring those premises but the applicant has not provided any additional information by way of conditions to counteract potential issues. The Chair referred to concerns Gwent Police have that a later licence had proved problematic in the past and asked for clarity on this. It was confirmed that the main issue was the locality of the premises and the close proximity to pubs, train station and taxi rank and there were issues where Gwent Police had a high demand on calls due to intoxicated persons from on licensed premises were congregating in the train station and taxi rank areas. Gwent Police had to position 6 to 10 Officers within that area to try to reduce the demand and if there were any issues they were able to respond quickly. Increasing the hours would lead to more intoxicated people congregating within those locations causing crime and disorder and anti-social behaviour. Referring to the report the Chair noted that there was no real explanation for the extra hours other than what the applicant had stated at the hearing confirming that they wanted maximise sales and asked the Officer if they agreed that was a fair assessment. The Officer confirmed that when his colleague dealt with the application, they advised his colleague that their business was suffering, and they wanted to increase their hours to try and claw back some money. The Applicant’s representative sought confirmation from Gwent Police that they had never contacted Gwent Police in relation to any incidents at the premises. It was also stated that they have had intoxicated customers come to the shop to purchase alcohol after they leave the pub, and they had sold alcohol to them as they have not had never had any issues with bad behaviour from any of them. Gwent Police confirmed that they had not had any calls from the applicant to attend the premises due to any issues, however the Officer was concerned to hear that the applicant had served intoxicated customers and that they should not be selling alcohol to anyone where there are concerns that they may be intoxicated. The Applicants representative stated that they serve customers who are able to request the alcohol and are well behaved. The Environmental Health Officer (Pollution Team) addressed the Sub Committee outlining their representation and expressed concerns regarding the Prevention of Public Nuisance objective. There are serious concerns with regards to the extension of hours from 11:00 until 1:00 AM. The additional hours and the supply of alcohol near to residential properties and the local area generally raises a concern as regards to public nuisance, not necessarily just for noise, but also the behaviour of individuals in the locality as well. The applicant had not offered any mitigation other than they are seeking some financial gain from the additional hours. The location of the premises is in close proximity to several public houses who have a late licence for supply of alcohol and are best placed to manage and regulate the supply of alcohol to their patrons. CCTV and security staff are in place to sort any issues, but the Off Licence does not have either of those. The Applicant had not responded to the Officers representations with regards to what control measures or conditions that they may may put in place to control any of the sort of nuisance or disorder issues. At this stage Officers had no confidence that this could be promoted as regards to the hours that have been applied for. The Applicant confirmed that there was CCTV in place were there to be any issues within the shop and that if customers were too intoxicated, they would be denied the sale of alcohol. The Applicant stated that where customers refused, they would go and purchase alcohol for one of the other shops in the area. The Chair advised that the concerns were around the late hours that was being applied for and the potential impact that could have on the local residential area. The Chair referred to the report where it stated that there had been no discussion with the licensing team beforehand to try to mitigate these measures as once purchased there would be very little control on those individuals who had bought the alcohol. The Environmental Health Officer confirmed that there was no legislation to help to deal with situations once the alcohol had been purchased, other than the legislation to deal with noise, disorder nuisance in the street that the Police could deal with, and consideration has to be for the residents in that locality. A Member sought clarification as to what measures would be in place to protect staff at the shop if intoxicated customers came into the shop and how would the customers be dealt with to leave the shop. The Applicant confirmed that there were CCTV cameras which would deter customers from misbehaving as it would be captured on camera, and they would get into trouble. If staff had to refuse to serve anyone, they would be advised what the reason for the refusal was and that the shop could lose their licence if they were to sell the alcohol to them. The Applicant stated that in those situations their customers accept what they had been told and they leave and state that they will go somewhere else because they don’t want to get the staff in trouble. It was also stated that some customers don’t come into the shop and wait by the door and are served there. The Chair queried this and was told that if people were behaving badly, they would not sell alcohol to them. A Member requested confirmation on how many staff would be working in the shop in late evenings. It was confirmed that there were two members of staff. The Legal Adviser looked to clarify with the applicant that the application for extension of hours was for them to gain a competitive business edge in the area. This was agreed by the Applicant’s representative. The Assistant Licensing Manager in her role as Responsible Authority addressed the Sub Committee outlining the representations included within the report. Members were advised that any premise looking to extend trading late hours, would need to take into account the environment around their premises. When people leave pubs, they would disperse patrons to leave but where they are able to purchase alcohol off sales that would not be the case leaving those people to drink on the streets and not leaving. Members were advised that an inspection of the premises by the Licensing Officer found that there was a breach with their license conditions regarding training, Members were also advised that the client’s financial situation cannot be taken into consideration and that whatever the decision of the hearing the premises could remain open until 1:00am but would not be able to sell licensable products. The Chair sought clarification on the breach of licensing conditions and asked if that had been resolved. The applicant representative confirmed that there was an issue with the paperwork for the training but that had been rectified and the business was fully compliant. The Chair suggested that there was no barrier to stopping them trading after the 11:00 excluding selling any licensable products. The Applicant confirmed that the majority of their sales was alcohol so they would need to have ethe licence to sell that. The Environmental Health Officer (Health and Safety) addressed the Sub Committee outlining the representations included within the report which made an objection to the application because of the vicinity that it's located in and raised concern of the potential to attract intoxicated persons into the area, that could rise to violent an impact on the health and safety and welfare of the company's employees and to members of the public in that area. The Officer confirmed that they agreed with all the representations and concerns made by all of the Responsible Authorities particularly with the by other officers such as concerns about the controls in licensed premises and alcohol sales being managed effectively there for consumption on site was when alcohol was purchased and taken off site, that control. The Chair sought confirmation from all the Responsible Authorities that there were no objections to moving the sale of alcohol to 8:00am. All Responsible Authorities confirmed they would have no objection to the sale of alcohol from 8:00am. The Licensing Manager requested clarification from the Applicant as to whether they would like to leave the application as it was or whether they wished to amend it and leave it as sale of alcohol from 9:00am as their current licence permits. The Applicants representative confirmed that the application could stay with the request to sell alcohol at 8:00am. All parties were then afforded the opportunity to sum up before the Licensing and Gambling Sub Committee retired to make its decision. In closing the Licensing Manager asked Members to consider all the representations before them, the evidence heard at the meeting, and all Licensing guidance when making their decision. The Sub Committee were reminded of the need to consider the promotion of the Licensing Objectives and whether the applicant would be able to meet the same. Other aspects which have arisen out of this meeting today in relation to the other premises and trading hours, the Licensing Manager stated would be addressed as a separate matter. Gwent Police summed up and advised that Gwent Police object to the applicant's proposed times for the sale of alcohol post 11:00 PM, the applicant has provided no additional conditions at the application stage that will assist in the promotion of the license objectives. Gwent Police object to the revised later times applied for at this stage and are not confident that at this time, that the applicants can promote the licensing objectives, , The Police concerns were based on the locality of the area and the breach of the current licence, whereby training records were not either kept up to date or completed. Environmental Health (Pollution Team) summed up and stated that they object to the application with regards to the hours applied for between 11;00pm and 1:00am and did not feel that the information supplied suitably mitigates or puts conditions in place that would suitably control and prevent public nuisance objective and thereby likely to undermine that objective as it stands, if the hours Applied for was to be granted. The Assistant Licensing Manager in her role as Responsible Authority summed up and confirmed that her representations remained unchanged and that the applicant had not demonstrated anything further that would mitigate or and support the licensing objectives, and object to the extension of hours between 11:00 and 1:00 in the morning. Environmental Health Officer (Health and Safety) summed up and confirmed her representations remained unchanged and object to the application. It was felt that the applicant had not submitted anything extra and that there were concerns about public safety issues. The Applicants representative summed up by stating that the business did not want to move but it was due to a compulsory purchase order and that the business would like to stay open and try to get to a stable financial position. A request was made, if possible, could the Committee at least allow the premises to open on Friday and Saturday until 1:00am and for the rest of the week remain at 11:00pm. Members were advised by the Legal Adviser and the Licensing Manager that this would be a matter that the Committee who could deliberate as to this option when discussing the hours generally. The Legal Advisor informed all parties present that the Sub Committee would retire to consider the representations made at the meeting and they would be informed in writing of the decision in the next 5 days. The Sub Committee retired at 11.09am to make its decision and all other parties left the meeting. Following consideration of the application for a Premises Licence Variation at Shock Off Licence 1 Bartlett Street, Caerphilly CF83 1JS. and having regard to the Licensing Manager’s report and all the representations made, the Licensing and Gambling Sub Committee unanimously, RESOLVED that the application to extend the licensable hours for the sale of alcohol from 8am as opposed to 9am has been AGREED and the application to extend the licensable hours for the sale of alcohol from 11pm to 01.00am has been REFUSED. · Supply of Alcohol (Off Sales only) Monday to Sunday 08:00 – 23:00 The Sub-Committee considered the application, submitted by the Applicant and the grounds for applying for the licensing hours to be extended. The Applicant detailed grounds surrounding financial difficulty that the Applicant suffered following a change of premises to the Applicant’s current location. The Applicant was clear that they were seeking to extend the licensing hours in order to generate further finances and to gain a financial business edge against other off-licences in the premises area. The Applicant detailed they had CCTV in place, appropriate training for staff and sometimes sold alcohol at the premises door, if a customer was heavily intoxicated. The Licensing Manager presented his report to the Sub-Committee which detailed that Responsible Authorities, including Gwent Police, Environmental Health Pollution Team, Licencing Authority in its role as a responsible authority and Environmental Health, Health & Safety, who all raised concerns regarding the application to extend the licensable hours for the sale of alcohol until 01.00am. The concerns included the potential increase in anti-social behaviour and violence, given the close proximity of the premises to public houses, taxi ranks and the strong possibility of a significant number of intoxicated persons being drawn to the premises area. There was also concern for residents near to the Applicant’s premises should there be an increase to the licensable hours. All of the Responsible Authorities agreed that the Applicant had not offered any suggested conditions or mitigation in order to promote the licensing objectives in order to alleviate their concerns regarding the requested variation application. The Sub-Committee considered all of the representations made during the hearing and gave weight to the comments and concerns expressed by the Responsible Authorities. The Sub-Committee gave consideration to the licensing objectives detailed by legislation, the Home Office Section 182 Guidance and to the Council’s own statement of licensing policy and found that in respect of the variation between 11pm and 1am that the Applicant offered no solutions to the concerns raised by the Responsible Authorities regarding the likely impact that the variation would have. The Sub Committee also acknowledged the following sections of the council’s statement of licensing policy namely Sections 5.4, 5.5 and 5.7 in respect of applicant’s responsibilities when devising their operating schedules, appropriate trading hours and areas where there may be a concentration of problematic drinkers. The Sub-Committee considered the variation to allow alcohol to be sold between the hours of 8am and 9am and agreed that this variation would not require any alteration to the licence requirements and could be properly managed under the current licence conditions. The Sub-Committee did have concerns that the Applicant confirmed they are selling alcohol at the premises door and did not feel that a variation of the licensable hours from 11pm to 1am could properly be managed by the Applicant and the licensing objectives not be properly promoted. Any person aggrieved by this decision has 21 days from the date of written notification of the decision to appeal to the local Magistrates Court.
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